From 38dd01bfa69dce4503c96958e30e4a93ca9750f4 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2025 15:27:23 +0000 Subject: [PATCH] Create meeting notes for Sig-economics #22 (#772) * Create meeting notes for Sig-economics #22 Signed-off-by: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> * Update 022-2024-12-04.md to add transcript Signed-off-by: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> * sig-economics Update 022-2024-12-04.md added recording link Signed-off-by: Drinkwater --------- Signed-off-by: George Appiah <48031636+iamGeorgePro@users.noreply.github.com> Signed-off-by: Drinkwater Co-authored-by: Drinkwater --- sig-economics/meetings/022-2024-12-04.md | 208 +++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 208 insertions(+) create mode 100644 sig-economics/meetings/022-2024-12-04.md diff --git a/sig-economics/meetings/022-2024-12-04.md b/sig-economics/meetings/022-2024-12-04.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..856a6dd9 --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-economics/meetings/022-2024-12-04.md @@ -0,0 +1,208 @@ + + +# Akash Network - Economics Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #22 + +## Agenda +- Recap of the previous meeting +- Updates on PIP01 and PIP02 +- Discussion of live proposals and funding mechanisms +- Open floor for ideas, feedback, and questions +- Reflections on 2024 and plans for 2025 + +## Meeting Details +- Date: Wednesday, December 04, 2024 +- Time: 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://thgwrtxurj52vxm35t2hd6p4uq55bfjhvyvdv7kwd4szgn4qqgxa.arweave.net/mc1ozvSKe6rdm-z0cfn8pDvQlSeuKjr9Vh8lkzeQga4) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants +- Scott Hewitson +- Cheng Wang +- Ahmet Recepoğlu +- Andrew Gnatyuk +- B S +- Maxime Beauchamp +- Poroburu +- Rodri R +- Yakup Altay + +## Meeting Notes + +### Recap and Updates +- **PIP01 and PIP02**: + - PIP01 nearing full commitment, with the focus on high-performance GPU onboarding. + - Remaining PIP01 contracts being finalized; a dashboard tracking commitments, expenditures, and revenue shared with attendees. + - Revenue from providers supported under PIP01 is being returned to the community pool. + - PIP02 has been passed and is moving forward. Focus remains on balancing supply and demand for GPUs on the Akash network. + +- **Provider Incentives**: + - Providers' subsidies are structured to add value to the network while being transparent. + - Liquidation methods for AKT include OTC trades and algorithmic selling to maintain market depth without adversely impacting token value. + +- **Developer Onboarding Program**: + - The third iteration passed successfully, continuing community-driven efforts to onboard developers into the Akash ecosystem. + +- **Live Proposals**: + - Discussion on the log forwarding proposal; currently failing due to alignment issues with the core team's requirements. + +### General Discussion +- **Transparency in Proposals**: + - Concerns raised about the loss of GitHub proposal discussions if accounts are deleted. Suggestions include storing discussions on IPFS or taking snapshots for permanent reference. + - Efforts are ongoing to centralize proposal reporting for better community access and transparency. + +- **2024 Reflections**: + - Significant growth in daily network fees (near 2000% over the year). + - Introduction of features like credit card payments aimed at lowering barriers for Web2 developers to use Akash. + +- **Looking Ahead to 2025**: + - Plans to expand the core team and attract more builders and contributors. + - Emphasis on striking while the market momentum is favorable to grow the network and its capabilities. + - Encouragement to bring skilled developers, artists, and contributors into the ecosystem. Suggestions for a referral bounty program to incentivize community recruitment. + +### Closing Remarks +- Attendees encouraged to share feedback, concerns, or ideas for improvement. +- Emphasis on community contributions as vital to Akash Network’s success. +- Wishes for a happy holiday season and anticipation for continued growth in the coming year. + +## Action Items +- **Scott Hewitson**: + - Finalize and share updated dashboards for PIP01 and PIP02 by year-end. + - Address transparency concerns by exploring ways to preserve proposal discussions permanently. + - Centralize reporting for all community pool proposals. + +- **Cheng Wang**: + - Collaborate on launching the credit card payments marketing campaign. + - Develop and implement a referral bounty program for recruiting contributors. + +- **Community Members**: + - Review PIP dashboards and provide feedback. + - Participate in ongoing proposals and discussions on GitHub. + - Refer potential contributors to the Akash ecosystem and share credit card payment updates widely. + +## Transcript + +Scott Hewitson: All right, everybody. This is the last SIG economics call of 2024. Been doing these things for almost two years now. So, it's pretty cool. you kind of just getting in a rhythm and then realize that you're two years into it. So, it's pretty sweet to see. typically, so for those that are either listening for the first time or recording, typically we go over what we talked about last call, then any kind of props that have come up, any discussions. and then I like to open it up to folks for any kind of feedback or if there's any ideas, anything at all that you'd like to talk about, I like to give an open floor. + +Scott Hewitson: one of the reasons why AOSH is so strong and our community is so strong is because we have these working groups and special interest groups where people are free to join and free to contribute in any way. And I do think as a community we do a pretty good job of helping those that are providing value to get funding in whichever way that is. So let's see last call I think we talked and Chang's going to jump on here in a little bit. I think if not I can just kind of cover some stuff So last call we talked a little bit about PIPO too. So that's the provider incentives second iteration of that that went on chain and passed. it's a sizable amount of funds and those funds are going to be used to incentivize putting up more high performance GPUs on the network. + +Scott Hewitson: it's kind of this chicken the egg problem, cold start problem where, you don't want too much supply because then it's underutilized, but you want enough to where people are using it. So, I think, it's a little hands-on and manual at the moment, but I think we're doing a decent job of growing demand and supply together. I mean, there's no perfect science to it, but I think we've done a pretty decent job. So, PIP PIPO2 has passed and we put one contract together for some providers or for some GPUs. PIP01 is almost fully committed and I'll drop the dashboard in chat if anyone wants to check that out. I was doing some work on that last night getting actuals and everything. + +Scott Hewitson: So here is so yeah, I mean you can see we committed quite a bit. We spent quite a bit. and then the cool thing about all this is ers are out there on the network and they're earning AKT and we're any AKT that those providers are earning are going sent back to the community pool. It's not going to be, one to one. we spend a million dollars, get a million dollars back. and we'll be able to get a good metric at the end of PIP01. But, as long as we're making we're making some money, the incentivization is working in my opinion. let's see. So, yeah, that's recap on PIPO one. Pipo 2 is going live. + +Scott Hewitson: I do all these dashboards for a bunch of different props that we put up. So I'm hoping to have stuff pretty up todate by the end of the year. I know events and community support and some of those other ones hackathon, we'll send back funds at the end of the year to kind of close out the prop for the year. and so you'll be able to check all that. It'll all be on chain verifiable. let's see Anything last week outside of Pipo one and Pipo 2? Those have kind of been the big things we've been focusing on for a while and I mean growth of the network. it's clearly doing good for the network. yeah, I think that's all I got from from last week. So then recent props that have gone up. the pito 2 went up had passed. + +Scott Hewitson: We had the developer onboarding program. that's the third iteration of that that went up and passed that it's a community program to get people learning about Akos. it's completely communitydriven. So it's pretty sweet that folks can do that. and I will say if anyone is trying to put up a prop to get funds from the community pool we've done it quite a bit. So, if you have ideas, get them in the GitHub discussions, ping me on Discord. let's talk in SIG economics. again, I love helping folks help the network. it's wins for everybody. there is a live proposal on log forwarding. I know it's currently not passing. Yeah, it will be rejected. + + +### 00:05:00 + +Scott Hewitson: I don't know too much on the specifics of that, but I think it is just refining requirements to make sure it all aligns with what the core team's doing and what these folks are putting up. So let's see. Those are the live props. yeah, I think so. I don't really have anything too much outside of PIPO one or PIPO two. Yeah, let's see. Can you explain the PIP01 dashboard a little bit more? I'm just looking at it now. Not sure how to read committed liquidated revenue columns. Yeah, know that's perfect question. so basically, we requested funds, we get all this AKT, right? I mean, we're incentivizing providing subsidies, if you will, to these providers. Not everybody wants to take AKT as payment. + +Scott Hewitson: a lot of folks are still with good reason, They're like, "All right, we want cash instead." So, some of those funds we have to take and liquidated to fiat or US dollars or stable coins. so we've got three main columns here and so above you got the proposal link, the wallet address that was requested, the total amount. I've got live balances which is not let me live balance is good so the committed side committed is basically we have signed a contract for x amount of dollars. so it may not be money spent but there's been a signed contract. So you sign a contract for a million dollars. You've committed a million dollars. You haven't spent a million yet. + +Scott Hewitson: you might spend that million over the next 12 months. spent to date is literally what has been spent. is there any questions on the committed aspect? If not, So on the liquidation side, again kind of goes into the u not everybody wants AKT to put up machines. it's a newer concept for folks. not everybody is hip to crypto yet. I will say there's at least one who is taking AKT in chunks, which is kind of cool. but yeah, so we've had to liquidate some funds and basically so you have the amount liquidated and then the proceeds. So that's the stables or fiat that we've gotten for that. + +Scott Hewitson: So really what when I'm looking at this and it's a lot of moving numbers the AKT price is moving contracts are going what at the end of PIP 01 we want committed to equal proceeds essentially and then one other thing I will say about committed there are some that are 12-month contracts there are some that are month-to-month that have been going for a while so we're getting towards the end of PIP01 and adding supply and then it'll cut over to PIPO too. So that's why I'm really trying to get it kind of cleaned up as much as possible just so that we are being transparent and showing everything. How are the funds liquidated? Yeah. So couple ways we can liquidate funds. + +Scott Hewitson: You can do OTC deals which is basically hey here's 500 grand of tokens here's 500 grand they call them T OTC desk exchange some exchanges have them some market makers have them so you can sell tokens like that the way we predominantly do it is through algorithmic selling via some market makers traders essentially just adding depth + +Scott Hewitson: to the order books on the sell side. and traders and people who are trying to invest in a cost they could see it. So when you put up a bunch of limit orders going up they can say there's 100 a grand or 200 grand that I could buy without raising the price a ton. So we try to do it in a way where we're adding depth where it's actually strengthens the market and it allows bigger players to see it and enter positions. I won't say not once, but never I'll do little swaps here and there, a couple grand, but that was before we had some of these other apparatus set up. U, but yeah, typically I'd say 99% of the time it's all u, limit orders adding depth. So, we're never dumping into a market. + + +### 00:10:00 + +Scott Hewitson: and the good thing is we have time to liquidate right so you can kind of set your orders and wait u for the market to come to you and I think we've been done a pretty good job of that so far let's see is there any other questions on that yeah never market sales never let's see okay then revenue is basically so these providers they've been paid to put up on the network. people are deploying to them we may or may not know who's deploying to what but what we do know is we put up this provider it's earned 10,000 AKT over this amount of time. the provider was paid for it by the community pool. + +Scott Hewitson: So those funds should go back to the community pool because the community technically owns these providers. so basically any funds that the providers get that are getting paid on the front end are any funds that get to them get returned to the community pool. So I think the last send to the community pool is in September. So there should be a large trunch going back to the community pool across multiple providers by the end of the month. I kind of wanted to do it at the end of the month so it's kind of clearcut. yeah, so that explains the revenue stats. Hey any other questions on the dashboard? does that make awesome. All righty. Yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: + +Scott Hewitson: So Kang, we just kind of went through last call. any props that were up. I talked a little bit about PIPO one, PIPO 2. I shared the PIPO1 dashboard. It's pretty much up to date. U and then we had a question on basically what the D the committed the liquidation and the revenue stat. So we walked through all that and then there was a question about OTC or how we're liquidating funds. And I said it can be a mix of algorithmic selling, market makers. but the big point is we're never market selling. We're only adding depth. and so it's actually healthy for markets to do it this way. I think you're caught up now. + +Cheng Wang: + +Scott Hewitson: Is there anything … + +Cheng Wang: Thank you. + +Cheng Wang: Sorry for being late. + +Scott Hewitson: no. You're fine. is there anything you want to add or talk about in particular or anything coming up? + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, I think just as this year another year draws to a close 2024 and looking ahead to 2025. and we have a bull market tailwinds now but behind us really looking forward to what we can build. I think one thing definitely want to emphasize and leave for the group here and others listening later on hopefully or reading is we need to strike the iron while it's hot right and so we're looking to really expand the core group where sorry I think something interrupted my call apologies we're looking to expand the core team we're looking to obviously expand our community members and get builders in here building and contributing + +Cheng Wang: to AOS network to continue to advance features, capabilities, resource avail, right? So, as we all know we're on the march towards And getting closer to par means being able to host more workloads, being able to serve more robust and bigger customers and clients onto network and bring usage on, Over year, we've grown near 2,000% as far as daily network fees go. I would love to there's no reason why we couldn't do that again, this time next year. And so we're though the number seems pretty big at 10K a day where that's what a little over three million a year or something like that, right? In terms of total network revenue, that's a drop in the bucket. So I think we can easily, more than definitely 100x that, If we I think put all of our competitive juices to build the product that the Kosh network is fast becoming. + +Cheng Wang: and the feedback from the community has been absolutely outstanding. We're going to be launching the marketing campaign and NPR stuff with credit card payments this week starting tomorrow. So, keep an eye out for that. Amplify share with your community, share with builders, we have credit card payments. So, there's no excuse for web two devs anymore for using your kosh. so that's what I really want to emphasize. And bring if people who are good let myself know, let Max, let Huie, etc. and we'd love to see if they can contribute in some meaningful way and be happy to if they add value and they're good, I think we can probably set up some sort of a referral program too. buyback. No. + + +### 00:15:00 + +Cheng Wang: So the way the credit card payments work is someone swipes credit card it basically in instantiates through oz a kosh on the back end and that goes to the provider. So it's either aos on the back end or USDC and either way right that's why we instituted the take fee with AKT 2.0 I know Andrew right? So no matter what currency is being used value is always accreating to the network. + +Scott Hewitson: All I mean, yeah, appreciate all that. And I just will echo, it doesn't matter how small of a contribution you want to make. Today I paid an AKT contribution that was on a bounty. We have, 10K a month in bounty dollars. Tai does a great job of wrangling folks. And, there's tons of stuff to be done. there's lots of lowhanging fruit. we don't have enough engineers. we don't have enough folks to do everything. so even if you don't think that, what you can contribute is useful. It probably is in some way, shape, or form. so I just encourage you to, hit me up or hit Ty up or hit anyone up and just kind of say, "Hey, these are my skills. This is what I'm good at." and, we'll go from there. All right. + +Scott Hewitson: right now I'd like to open it up to the floor if anyone has anything they want to say or any comments, questions, If you have concerns about how we're doing this, how we're operating. would I'd love to hear any feedback or ideas. I know Andrew's got something for me. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: + +Andrew Gnatyuk: No, I'm good. I'm just like, came to see what's popping. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Do we still have talks on buy bags, burns, some mechanisms, so I could give it to retail and say, hey, they're going to pumps the talk and just wait for it, No, I'm kidding. the one thing I wanted to say is that we recently had So there was a proposal on the cash it passed but then the discussion about this proposal was deleted. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: So basically the question is can we make some sort of rule that even if the proposal passed could people not to delete the discussion about the proposal or something like that + +Scott Hewitson: whatever reason their GitHub account got deleted. so they had to make a new GitHub account but their post disappeared from it. so I don't know exactly how to recover that if it's possible. that's why I try to because GitHub is not forever right if it's on chain it's forever. So we try to put as much info as you can on chain. but yeah, then you're missing out on the discussions, the points people bring up or, the things that they say they're going to do and then didn't do or did do. yeah, I 100% agree with you, Andrew. I know some other projects they'll do a IPFS link so it's like a permanent link on there, but again it doesn't have discussions. + +Scott Hewitson: So, maybe something we could do is screenshot or save the discussions at some point, and then yeah, I don't know. it's a kind of a one-off case, but yeah, you should be able to look back at everything for posterity. + + +### 00:20:00 + +Andrew Gnatyuk: + +Andrew Gnatyuk: it's one of case. Yeah, for sure. but if it's going to repeat itself sometimes in the near future, people will like hey there is a proposal it passed it has lots of funding and we don't know what is it about and that's just a concern about that. Okay. Yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: a way to solve that or a way to just kind of ensure that doesn't happen. again, I'm all ears. I know Tai's thought about it as well. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: If I have any idea, I will share for sure. + +Scott Hewitson: Thank you. got a question There's no dumb questions here. These are all Everyone's welcome. Ask anything if you don't know. The only dumb question is a question that you don't ask. is there a unified budget? no. So, I would say no. So, you've got the community pool and I got little let me find this. I tried to put somewhere community pool spin reporting. so the thing is you've got multiple teams requesting funds from the community pool. Overclock Labs is just one of the teams doing it. + +Scott Hewitson: and so it's kind of like you can see all the props that we put up. Overclock has, our own treasury. We have employees, contractors. we put up props for various things. but yeah, some of the Zelia campaign that's completely communityowned. I know the website prop was community owned. So those are anyone can put up a prop at any time. It's permissionless. So, BS, if you had a thousand AKT, you could put up a prop for anything. I will say this, I made this a little while ago and it needs some tender love and care for sure, but this community pool spend reporting. It's kind of just a place where can compile, any funds that have been requested and received from the community pool. + +Scott Hewitson: So part of what I need to do is, fill in more for what Overclock has put up so far, but then anyone can, put up a PR to say, "Hey, this is the reporting that I'm doing and you can have it here." So we just wanted to have a centralized spot to look at this. But yeah, to your point, there's no unified budget across the pool. I mean, you could make something, I guess, using onchain data. but yeah, that's kind of where we're at. And It's cool that, anyone can request funds. ideally, in the perfect world, overclock is, we're a smaller and smaller percentage of the people requesting funds over time. No worries. Good question, too. + +Scott Hewitson: All does anyone else have anything they'd like to bring up? Any questions, concerns? Nope. All right. Chang, any last thoughts? Correct. + +Cheng Wang: wins continue. But like I said, seriously, I know I say this all the time and very few people come through with suggestions and recommendations, but please bring people into the ecosystem. I think internally I'll drop it here first, but we should definitely sort out a bounty program of some kind like a referral program where if you refer a really good developer who we don't know about and bring them into even if they're in the community in the periphery but they're not really participating and you surface them up then they can really contribute meaningfully. We should absolutely have rewards for that. So yeah, take that to the bank. We'll definitely put something there out for it to add additional help whether it's developer, artist, whatever it is community me just anything of the sort. + +Cheng Wang: + +Cheng Wang: If you think they can add value to Akos, please let us know. + +Scott Hewitson: Alright I'll give one more chance to let anyone raise a hand or drop something in chat. Otherwise, we can end things a little early and… + +Scott Hewitson: give everyone back some time. Last All everybody have a good rest of the year. Happy holidays. I'm looking forward to seeing everyone in January. Appreciate you all. + + +### 00:25:00 + +Cheng Wang: Thank you. + +Cheng Wang: Appreciate you all. + +Maxime Beauchamp: It's yours. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Have a nice day. + +Cheng Wang: Take care. + +Scott Hewitson: right. Thank you. + +Cheng Wang: Have a Good rest of the year. + + +### Meeting ended after 00:25:28 👋