diff --git a/committee-steering/meetings/010-2023-11-01.md b/committee-steering/meetings/010-2023-11-01.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6bd7bfa8 --- /dev/null +++ b/committee-steering/meetings/010-2023-11-01.md @@ -0,0 +1,442 @@ +# Akash Network - Steering Committee - Meeting #10 + +## Agenda + +- Review / discuss / address any community feedback, grievances, or conflicts. +- Review [projects list](../projects-list/README.md), prioritize / add / remove if necessary. +- A look at open discussions in [Github Discussions](https://github.com/orgs/akash-network/discussions). +- Open up to any other questions from the community. + +## Meeting Details + +- Date: Wednesday, November 1st, 2023 +- Time: 11:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://4yrnmjlm3nco2ccfkbkv67s6cfgvgrge7op5dfwnv6gn46mueqxa.arweave.net/5iLWJWzbRO0IRVBVX35eEU1TRMT7n9GWza-M3nmUJC4) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Committee + +- Adam Bozanich, Overclock Labs +- Anil Murty, Overclock Labs +- Artur Troian, Overclock Labs +- Greg Osuri, Overclock Labs +- Scott Caruthers, Overclock Labs + +## Participants + +- Anil Murty +- Artur Troian +- Cheng Wang +- Denis Lelic +- Deval Patel +- Emmanuel Arthur +- George Pro +- Greg Osuri +- Herman Drotz +- Jannick H +- Jigar Patel +- Julius Haus +- Max +- Piyush Choudhary +- Robert Del Rey +- Robert Koschig +- Rodrigo Rochin +- Scott Carruthers +- Scott Hewitson +- SGC | DCnorse +- Tommy Eastman +- Tyler Wright +- Zach Horn +- Zach Ross + + +## Notes: + +- Anil reviewed the structure of the meeting for any new members. +- Anil started the meeting by asking if there any feedback on how things are going in the community or any grievances? +- There were no grievances in the community at this point. +- Anil reviewed the project list. +- Cheng talked about the utility of AKT. AKT is always going to be front and center. + + +### Projects: + +- GPU support has done and is publicly released. This will be marked as released. +- Anil brought up the engineering board. +- Cheng mentioned that there will be a marketing and community board +- Anil wants to retire the table, and replace it with boards. +- Anil and Artur talked about Stable Payments. Still in progress with native stable coins. This may require a network upgrade. This could require packet forwarding, and there is a solution being worked on this. After that this can be marked "released". +- Piyush gave a demo on the work with website revamp. +- Events 2024 working group session is happening Friday November +- EDU certification is being restarted. More details coming soon. +- Anil asked about any thoughts or questions regarding the Akash Hackathon. +- Cheng talked about feedback he had about the hackathon. There was also a retro with participating members. +- Anil mentioned he saw variance of quality of submissions. +- Piyush will share a link to the docs page on the website over the next week. +- Anil talked about on-chain analytics. +- Anil mentioned that Piber brought up a good idea about analytics. +- Anil mentioned that there is an issue where provider attributes from Cloudmos get wiped when provider is restarted. Max mentioned Providers need to update their provider.yaml file to reflect the changes made on Cloudmos. +- Anil asked if Authorized spend management PRD is complete. Cloudmos has all of this working fully functional. This will be changed to "released". +- Deval mentioned that Praetor team will do another demo for content moderation. +- They are going to submit PRs to share binary. +- Tyler mentioned that there is a network upgrade coming soon. + + +### Github Discussions: + +- Anil gave an update on the Foundational model work with Thumper. +- Anil thought about doing model with stable diffusion 1.5. Doing stable diffusion 2.0 would have been 5 times the cost. It was noticed that Databricks had a paper that they were working on with Cornell to train with stable diffusion 2.0. +- Anil and the Thumper team weighed options and decided to run a foundational model with Pixart alpha. Pixart claims to produce images with the same quality as stable diffusion XL. Costs will be the same as asked. +- Shimpa is working on bringing of the provider now. There will be a lot of updates coming via Akash Network marketing channels. +- Piyush talked about https://github.com/orgs/akash-network/discussions/349. +- Piyush shared a demo for people to look at. Find it [here](https://www.loom.com/share/55b7f978c66b4153b23336a0702e8248?sid=81a11736-ff67-49ee-974d-0427e704e347). This will be built on top of Cloudmos. +- Anil asked what provider would this be trained on. Who is going to be the provider, and who is going to manage? +- Piyush said the model will be trained on Akash. The AKT requested. +- Anil mentioned that Zach Ross from Foundry has a100 researches. +- Anil asked how much the training costs versus hosting costs? +- Anil asked why the cost went up from $50,000 to $63,000. +- Julius asked how many people are working on it. Piyush mentioned his team has 8 people. +- Anil suggested using Foundry for training the AI. +- Piyush mentioned he would put the proposal on chain soon. + + +**Open Discussion:** + +- Tyler reiterated that there is a Network Upgrade coming soon. Messages will be shared in Discord and beyond. + +### Action Items: + +- Authorized Spend Management will be moved to "released". +- Piyush to figure out how many a100s hours are needed for training. +- Core team is going to prep for the Mainnet 8 upgrade. + + + +# **Transcript** + +_This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created._ + +Tyler Wright: All right, welcome everybody to steering committee monthly meeting number 10. Usually these monthly meetings for the steering committee happened at the end of every month. But for this month it got moved. So thank you everybody for accommodating the date change. + +Tyler Wright: Again during committee's Anil and members of student committee Syrian committee walk us through project lists GitHub discussions. And then there's a time for open discussions at the end of anybody has anything that they want to talk about relate to the cash Network today is an added action item. I see piyush's on the call. So again a number of updates related to initiatives that are going on go on during specific special interest group calls. I know that the parade tour team does a great job of giving updates and all the work that they've been doing since receiving community pool funding on during sick providers calls and in Discord, you're just a great job of letting us know what he and his team are working on since they've received community pool funding for the website revamp during the working group of class website a weekly meetings. These are all again meetings that are open to anybody if they have any questions comments thoughts ideas, but + +Tyler Wright: I know the piyush is going to take maybe two to three minutes a day just to give the wider group an update on the work that he and his team have been doing on what the website. So I think that we'll have that after the GitHub discussions as an agenda item. But without further Ado again last month rather was a quieter meeting. I know a number of people were traveling because of Versa number of other meetings. So we talked about follow-up discussion from metamask as well as + +Anil Murty: Thanks, Tommy. Hey everyone's doing well. I'm gonna go ahead and share my screen and then we can go to the usual just things that we do. + +Anil Murty: Okay, so for those of you that are joining us for the first of all, welcome and just a quick rundown of what we do on these calls the idea with these calls is not to go into Super depth on any given topic. Although we might think one topic that people want to talk about on a different week just in the interest of time, but in general what we do on these calls is we review and address any Community feedback in terms of how things are running in the six in the work groups. As well as any sort of conflicts that might be potentially happening. So if there's any of those bring those up, And then we review the list of projects that are in the backlog as well as anything that's being worked on right now and just be at a high level talk about, potentially any blockers or any issues on those or if there's good progress, report on the progress. And then the third thing we do is review. We try to review. + +Anil Murty: most of the new GitHub discussions that have been posted since the last hearing committee meeting and if possible have a discussion with the person that posted that specific discussion. ideally what we like to do is have the person that created the discussion join these meetings and talk about, their vision for that specific proposal if it's a proposal or just agenda discussion. And then of course if there's any other questions from anyone we can take those up as well. Before we get into these are there any questions from anyone about the agenda? + +Anil Murty: Cool, I guess we'll get started with first one. Is there any sort of feedback from anyone about generally the cigs in the work groups or things that we need to talk about in terms of conflicts? + +Anil Murty: Never a couple of minutes see if anybody wants to bring up any sort of feedback. + +Anil Murty: usually get nothing in this part of the meeting so Nothing different from that this time. Okay, I guess we'll move on to the projects list. But if there's anything that people can think of later, please feel free to post it in the chat and we can go revisit it at the end. So let's move on and talk about the projects list. So for those that are joining the first time there is a link here to the list of projects. You can also get to it from GitHub in the project list directory. + +00:05:00 + +Anil Murty: that's out here. And one of the things I want to call out is in the last steering committee meeting one of the things we talked about was potentially using a project board for managing some of these projects. So what we have done since then is We've created a community board specifically for engineering and development projects and within the overclock engineering team. We've been using that to sort of Keep track of progress as well as priorities between various development tasks. So if you want to get to that you can just go to Akash Network the route the degree and for the root repository in GitHub, and then from here if you click on projects. What you see is a link to a cohesive product in engineering roadmap. So we click on this. + +Anil Murty: What you'll see here is basically a project board that shows you kind of, various initiatives or sub projects that are in progress as well as in the backlog for what the development teams are working on. So primarily in progress ones are the ones that are getting the most attention right now. And then this next one here is the up list that is a prioritize list of what we would potentially be looking at next. So if you haven't take any located yet, please do take a look at it. Once again, you have to go to the root Akash Network and click on projects to get to this. But some of the main things that the teams have been working on most actively are from the core team side. We've been working on. Provider feature Discovery as well as making provider attributes available in bids. This is primarily driven by the fact that we have seen, + +Anil Murty: Fairly active amount of usage of gpus on the network but one of the things we've noticed as a result of that is there are pain points in terms of being able to find the exact gpus that you want on the network and then when you actually go into a deployment, there's no way of knowing which GPU you're getting in cases where you don't actually indicate with GPU in the STL. So these kind of address those constraints are those problems. They're high level. There's provider content moderation. We'll talk more about that. things that the cloud most team is doing in terms of improving the GPU deployment experience as other things. take a look at the project mode. If you haven't had a chance to look at it. Oops. Sorry about that and definitely bring up if you have any questions about The other thing that we have talked about and Cheng feel free to jump in here if you're on the call. + +Anil Murty: We've talked about potentially building a similar project board for marketing and Community initiatives as well because obviously the list of projects in this table here span more than just development effort. There's a lot of community things that happen. There's even planning there is marketing efforts that go on. So one of the initiatives that we've been discussing so we've obviously been running the engineering meetings with an overclock team by looking at this project board and it's been working really well for us to keep things focused in have, a place where people can go and look at what the priorities are for the team. So with that in mind, the marketing team and the community teams have been leading towards using a similar process for their work as well. I don't know Cheng if you want to talk a little bit about that. for me to put you on this part, but + +Cheng Wang: No worries. Thank you il. Yeah, we're exactly just like following the footsteps that you've paved here Anil with regards to the board that you've built for the cohesive roadmap. We're currently internally collating a lot of the stuff that the community has been working with us on in order to prepare to get some of these things. + +Anil Murty: Thank you for the update. So going forward. Hopefully if we can figure out the board for marketing and community events as well similar to development projects then my hope is in the future. Maybe the next year in committee or the one after that. We can actually retire this table that's out here and just use the boards to talk about everything that's in progress. So that should basically make this a lot more streamlined and very clear in terms of what's in progress as opposed to having to change, the tags on these every time and move these up and down board lets you do that much easily. + +00:10:00 + +Anil Murty: So that's kind of the intention going forward at some point. we're going to retire this and we're just going to have boards for one board for community and marketing things in one board for our development things. And if you find out that there are things that don't fit in any of those buckets, then we'll consider creating a third board. But right now the thinking is we should be able to handle pretty much all the things that happen within the Akash Community between those two buckets marketing and community and then development product and Engineering essentially. But if there's any thoughts or questions on any of that do post them up on the chat or raise your hand and happy to take those on. + +Anil Murty: So for this time since we don't have both the boards, we're just going to go through some of the items on this list, but in the future, hopefully we can streamline it a better. I did update the state of this board right before the call. So my apologies if I missed a few things. I marked some of the things that last time we called out as being released as released in this so we'll skip over those and just talk about the ones that are either in implementation, but mostly an implementation or respect definition. So the first one I want to talk about was stable payments and settlement. This one last time Arthur you had mentioned that there was one thing remaining that needed to be addressed on this and so we wanted to keep this open. Is that still the case or can you talk a little bit about what? + +Artur Troian: Yeah, do you guys hear me? so Yeah,… + +Anil Murty: Yes, I can hear. + +Artur Troian: the stable payments idea has been implemented of actually available right now on the main ad there is a one thing we are still in progress with related to the native. coins and + +Artur Troian: It was probably requires Network upgrade. So still in the process to assess what things needs to be done from our cash prospective. First. One is Packet forwarding we have sort of drops for that and we will be testing it soon. But I think there's one piece missing. So we're gonna need to discuss it with the other chains. Just make sure that we pick all of the necessary features up for that and as soon as we have No squared out we can close this part. + +Anil Murty: Sounds good. + +Anil Murty: Awesome moving on to the next item. There's an implementation here is the Akash website revamp. I know Tyler you and you share family the folks working on this. Maybe Zach is a world as well. Can we get an update on what we are with all of this? + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, so I guess Pierce is here. This might be a better than doing a little bit later, but I know Dennis Zach, he used and many others have been a party's working group sessions. I guess PSU mind taking over the screen really quickly be shared a link to share the link in Virtual and can you give us maybe one minute about where the website is and what's up next? + +Piyush Choudhary: So first of all, thank you so much for a long introduction. So this is use a world Panther on Discord. So we are working on Apache website. We're going for about 1.5 months even more than that, but our proposal got exactly one point five months back from now. It was on I guess 720 of September and we have made significant progress and we have used the top class technologies. That is estrogen CSS, which makes it a lot and very smoother in terms of Music Experience as well as on the pages for that is wrong with it. So we have almost completed most of the pages that as you can see only thing that is left. Is there a few pages that needs to be addressed and the dog's patient. So I think within the next two weeks the website will be completely ready all the feedback strong the designers and the + +Piyush Choudhary: members so if they might be some minor changes in our desire when it comes to the design perspective, but it's all going really well and very smooth and we hope that with the next few weeks would be one official domain and it has also real-time features. So apis are also getting integrated into the website. So whatever the total metrics that are being split here is real time, which was not the case with the previous acrossful that is currently basically on the classroom Network and we are also working on the pricing stat space that is a part of basically the cloud notes. So we'll be designing the presentation from Zach here and we will have a real thing from Charities by Integrations with the cloud Mercury behind the scenes all the calculations and also the net protective. So yeah, that's all. + +00:15:00 + +Piyush Choudhary: And I have also dropped the link in the chart if someone wants to check it out on the liberation. + +Tyler Wright: Thank you Again. If anybody has any comments on the Discord for the working group for the cash website is very active where Denis Pierce Zach and many others are participating as well as the group meets weekly on Thursdays at 6:30 AM Pacific time where a number of folks get together live and talk about specific design element. So if anybody here wants to join those conversations and that time does not Feel free to message me privately and we can create some other time. But again, we have folks from all over the world on our call. So that seemed like the best time but yeah Pierce. Thank you very much for a short demo. + +Piyush Choudhary: presentation + +Anil Murty: Yes. + +Tyler Wright: Yes. + +Anil Murty: Thank you piyush. That was those great and I was going to ask I was almost going to raise my hand and I ask about the pricing page, but you already mentioned that so it's great and that's good context for something else. I was going to mention which is once we have the pricing page implemented in the website. The plan is to remove the pricing page from cloudmose. + +Piyush Choudhary: Really? + +Anil Murty: So Cloud most of the deployment tool it's awesome that the pricing pages in there, but it doesn't quite make a lot of sense to have it in there. So it's more of a marketing thing talk about price comparison. So that's kind of the intention is to move it out to the website and remove it from clouds. So then moving on to the next things in this list is the next three kind of fit together, I think. Certification event planning in Akash hackathon. I don't see Adam wozni on the call. I don't know if there's somebody else who can speak to these items Tyler, if somebody else could speak to him. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, I know Chang Cheng before you speak. + +Anil Murty: right + +Tyler Wright: I know that Adam is still feeling a little bit down for the count. But there is an event planning session. I believe for 2024. I'm happening this coming Friday. I think it's a second of a working group session around planning for what's going to be happening in 2024. I know the hackathon has completed and I believe payouts and made to those that have one rewards shout out to Huey for that. And I know he's working very closely with omniflex to update and restructure some of the certification programs because it's easier for folks to use but China. Do you have anything you want to add? + +Cheng Wang: That's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah just was I think catching the gnarly bug that's going around. So that's why He's still active on internal comms and things like that. But yeah So eventually Just as Tyler said and on the hackathon as So we're I think planning phase for the next go around is going to commence on that soon and a lot of the budgets and proposals will be going on chain sometime probably within the next month because we definitely want to beat the holiday season and that's all for looking into 2024 for both hackathons planning and the edu program that one item is being restarted at this point in time. Now, there's a little bit more bandwidth and we have some more clear-cut parameters, so That's something to look out for not too many details to share yet on the edu efforts, but that's something where the Insiders and I don't have already been working on. + +Anil Murty: Sounds good. Thank you Cheng for the update. One thing. I was wondering does anybody want to share I think this is the first hearing committee meeting where we have that we have had since the hackathon ended is a sort of feedback from the hackathon that's worth sharing here, in terms of things that did not go Anything at all? If not, no worries. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, a few things as far as the hackathon goes I think the items this was I think a really good test bed for understanding how the hackathons will look like under Dora hacks managing the kind of operations of it. I think the operations of it was well managed and that was fine. I think the challenges were primarily around in the initial days of the hackathon or initial weeks. They're just unavoidable. suppose baptized. I suppose people like that just kind of submitting whatever projects and praying and spray praying rather across a whole bunch of different hackathons. Just hoping they may sneak in and get a prize or completely unrelated to Akash. So that was one thing that we have to I think be cognizant of and really get people who are wanting to build I think within our hackathons right to have those properly geared up and incentivize before the hackathons even go live. That's number one number two, because I think + +00:20:00 + +Cheng Wang: That all the top three winners are existing community members and who have been community members for some time. So new entrants seems unlikely to join this particular hackathon, but of course that doesn't mean we won't continue to try right that's another part. And then finally I would say in terms of tracks and pushing something out there that is a bit more closed and Is something that we're thinking about just instead of having the hackathons be super open and then people can build anything they want, We might have two separate categories. I don't know yet. This is just early thoughts. But I have an open-ended side as well as something that's very specific that we would like to incentivize the community to try their hands on. So those are the current that's the other I guess third item. There is having a bit more guided path and in addition to the open one. + +Anil Murty: That's great. Thank you Cheng and let go the comment I think about. They're being a lot of variants. So when I was looking at all the projects that were submitted into haathon, I noticed that some of the projects had basically almost implemented a solution that could be deployed in scaled up right then and there was some projects which was basically three lines of hey, this was an idea that I have in my head effect. that's kind of impression. I got in so completely Echo your comment and on the way and so there but overall, I thought it went really well so nice work. By everyone that was involved. + +Anil Murty: The next one is Dockside migration. I know Luna in team have been the ones that have my privately driving this forward. I don't know if Luna's on the call. I was hoping it would be + +Tyler Wright: From the standpoint of sorry,… + +Anil Murty: + +Tyler Wright: and they are from the standpoint of the work that Luna and the quasar's team have done on dock sites migration. That work is released. I know that because they were doing the work in Hugo and now we've moved to Astro there is a little bit of rework that's going to have to done but the front end kind of look and feel menus and sub menus is going to persist into the newer version. Go ahead piyush. + +Piyush Choudhary: So I have a comment on that. So I simply got the access to the work that you mustn't read on the dots site and we have seen as we are building the cash website program from scratch and docs being a part of it. So everything will be from the design perspective. Everything will be going from scratch considering the different extract and personality migration and the content folders that are there in the Stream airport will be used as it is. So I will just us the protein members to take a look at the content again on what will not stream it that's because that is going to be on the docs page for the cost website. Thank you. + +Anil Murty: Sounds good. Thanks for the update guys. The only question I have is and maybe the answer is straightforward as it's already been taking care of his we saw the look and feel of the Dockside a while back. I don't know it was probably three or four months ago and the website effort is obviously ongoing in the last month and ongoing now. How do we ensure that? They both look consistent given you're just going to be pulling in those pages? + +Piyush Choudhary: So to maintain the consistency so we have lost the previous designs from the designers. I think that Miss and By having a property discussions during the workbook sessions. We will make sure that everything looks in consensus with the design. If not be a big trust in front of + +Anil Murty: Okay, Just wanted to make sure that was being considered as Cool any other questions from anyone on the Dockside migration? + +Anil Murty: Okay, sounds good. So tentatively is it fair to assume that the new Dockside would also go live at the same time as the website going like piyush. awesome + +00:25:00 + +Piyush Choudhary: yep, so within next week, I will always drop the link Google drops, which only will be able to see how it's written. + +Anil Murty: amazing. Thank you. All We'll move on to the next one, which is on chain Analytics. + +Anil Murty: I know Cloud most made a whole bunch of updates to their analytics last time. I don't think you guys have spent a lot of time on this since the last session but I did notice that there was one more person that was suggesting a new idea on the signaltics Discord Channel. I don't know that person is on the call here. But if you are definitely speak up and talk about anything that you're proposing in terms of Analytics. But I don't know max if you have any updates on analytics that you would like to share. + +Anil Murty: You maximum. Not sure if you're speaking but I + +Max: Oops like that. Thanks my microus unit. And so yeah, not so much on the casualtakes dashboard per se but last updates that we deployed were for the providers on the provider list page mainly the list. We added the GPU models and quantities + +Max: and yeah, that's pretty much it for the analytics for now. + +Anil Murty: Awesome, and I'm trying to figure out who the other user was. There was commenting on sync Analytics. + +Anil Murty: Yeah, so that person goes by fiber. I don't know they're on the call, but I noticed they posted a YouTube recording of potential hackathon idea that they didn't get into that icon in time, but it seemed pretty promising. It's pretty early. But if that person is able to join the call next time we can probably hear about. + +Anil Murty: awesome But what are the next thing and this is other things we plan to bring up. Provider attributes here. I know it's almost team has done a bunch of work to add a UI within Cloud most to be able to adjust and set provide attributes. There's two things. I wanted to bring up in the context of Provider attributes. And then max if you have anything else, please free to feel free to jump in as well. The one thing I was going to bring up was we did notice that there was an issue where if a provided sets the attributes using Cloud most UI and then the provider restarts itself, then the ethical skin wiped out. So that's something for people to be aware of it's something that we still need to solve. We don't have a solution to that today yet. So if you're using the provider attributes UI today, that's something to keep in mind is that there is a + +Anil Murty: I don't want to call it a bug but a limitation where it will wipe out your custom attributes that you create. The other thing that I want to mention in the context of Provider attributes is + +Anil Murty: In the next Network upgrade that's coming up in the next few days. Arthur is going to be adding support for being able to receive ributes some attributes in the bid requests itself. So specifically Arthur is going to be adding generally supporting attributes in the bit request and then specifically adding support for GPU attribute so that when you request GPU resources from the network from a provider, you can also see What GPU model you're going to be getting in those requests and that's going to be a huge ad because it's really hard to know what you're getting today because if you request a sdl with no gpus model specified you just get the provider name back and nothing else other than that. so, I don't know Arthur if you wanted to add anything more to that, but I just wanted to bring that up. + +Artur Troian: No, pretty much. I think we discussed it all on the sick chain last time. + +Anil Murty: Okay, sounds good. The next one's authorize pen management. I think most of the work that is outlined in the PRD here is complete at this point within Cloud most. That's correct. Right Max. So I was going to ask if if it's okay for us to change this to release at this point. + +Max: If it's okay to release what sorry. + +Anil Murty: Yeah, meaning are we done doing the things we wanted to do for Arthur I spend management. I think you've implemented most if not, all of the stuff that was called out in this TRD, right managing it from the grantee side all of that ux. + +00:30:00 + +Max: yes fully functional. The only issue is one that we talked about in that Arthur I think is working make The Artsy persistent for more than one deployment. + +Anil Murty: So yeah, and that's more of a core Bond. That we need to solve the core. and there's a issue open for that. Okay. Sounds good. So I'm going to go ahead and say this to release on this anybody Is released on this anybody has any concerns with that at least from a UI standpoint. + +Anil Murty: next one's content moderation Most of the work here is being led by the pretor team Deval and jigar. So I'll give you guys the chance to talk about any updates that you want to share. + +Deval Patel: and yeah, so for that we give the demo in the Sig providers meeting last Wednesday regarding attributes of blocking wallet address images and as well as the certain hostname we are working on the UI to the like to do that from the printer part as well as we are going to have the + +Deval Patel: CID for Content moderation, so we are working on that part. But we are making good progress and hopefully give another demo on the next required or something and before that even released to core team members the binary so it can check and we put the pull request like we're going to put the question as well. + +Anil Murty: Thank They will and this is also good segue to point out that there is a item on the Akash project board for this and there's updates in there along with the link to the video that they will be talking about. + +Anil Murty: And I think we can kind of skip or the rest of the items here because there's isn't any active worth happening on these unless somebody wants to bring up. Anything that we haven't talked about yet? + +Anil Murty: Square piyush + +Piyush Choudhary: Yeah, we haven't talked about the discussions that is and the kind of proposal that is on bit of discussions that is related to AI assistant deployment during the system lines the SGL generations to automation. + +Anil Murty: Yeah, so that's kind of the next item. So we typically go through the list of projects that are in progress and then we jump to the discussions, but certainly get to that. Good Tyler. + +Tyler Wright: Real quick. I think Anil you mentioned it very quickly, but there will be information that's going out to validators. Another folks in the community soon around that mainnet eight upgrade. there should be a proposal that's going up for vote over the next day or so. And then from there we should again have an upgrade at some point late next week for validators and providers archers actively working on a number of things and we'll again update documentation. So I just want to mention that to folks here so that whether they're validator providers themselves or they're an Insider or Vanguard, they can start sharing that more widely are just know that it's coming down the pipe and that's again related to I think. + +Tyler Wright: Feeling any of looking at it right now, but the issue here that was talked about an issue support number 124 that the big attributes requires a network upgrade. So again, that's what we're planning for. We talked about in sick chain, but just for folks that did not attend that all just look out for a validator node upgrade and it will be a provider upgrade. I think just a bump upgrade nonetheless happening over the next week or so. + +Anil Murty: Thanks for bringing up that Tyler and the main feature as Tyler mentioned is Attributes in the read requests and that issue here is on the board as well. So that's a primary reason for the upgrade. And then I think we had talked about potentially creating a main date upgrade issue as well. Right? Tyler, I don't know if that's still the plan. But if it is we can add that word. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah. + +Anil Murty: Thank you. Anything else anyone wants to bring up on the projects list before we move on to discussions. + +Anil Murty: move on to discussions So typically what we try to do here is we try to review most of the proposals or discussions that came up since the last time we met in the steering committee. But this seem to be a fair amount of those this time. So what I'd like to do is focus on only the ones that people are able to talk about so either the person that is written the discussion or somebody who's able to represent them. If they're on the call, then we'll talk about it. If not, we won't So I'd like to talk about one that I've been driving and that is this Foundation model retraining effort. So to give people a general update on this the proposal went on chain after the last steering committee meeting and it's been approved. And as of this morning we are in process of getting this training started. + +00:35:00 + +Anil Murty: The one key thing to point out here is that we initially thought about doing this training using stable diffusion 1.5 was what was proposed initially? + +Anil Murty: that was primary driven by the fact that stable diffusion is pretty popular and we chose 1.5 because you wanted to keep the cost low doing two dot stability in two dot o would have increased our cost potentially up to five times because of the serial number of parameters that stability into Rodrigo has as we were getting ready to get this going a lot of things we did were, basically testing out a cluster from a provider making sure that we can actually use that for this training before we actually commit to it. and over the course of that, that took a few weeks and as we were just about to keep this off what we noticed was that there was a new paper published by The folks over at databricks specifically the Mosaic ml folks working with the team at Cornell. + +Anil Murty: And this paper essentially talks about exactly the same idea which is taking a image generation model and using creative common data set to train it and those people are published. I believe on Wednesday of last week, so it's relatively new. And so once that people came out, they plan was to use table deficient 2.0 to train it with a Creative Commons data set and essentially to exactly what we were planning to do. So we basically had a discussion between Thumper and ourselves and we talked about, does it make sense for us to stay train with stable deficient 1.5 given that potentially going to be this model that's trained on stable diffusion 2.0 with the same Creative Commons data set and + +Anil Murty: One part would be to continue down the path of doing 1.5 and potentially be inferior to the southern model. The other path would be to switch to 2.0. But that would be a significantly higher cost than what we asked for in the proposal. A third path would be to pick different model that. Is very competitive to stabilifusion and luckily we were able to identify a model called art Pixar Alpha that is based on a diffusion model and claims to result in images that are of much higher quality than stable if you're in 1.5 so they came to be as good in quality as stability Fusion Excel, which is basically the most latest and greatest model from stability AI. + +Anil Murty: so what we have decided is to switch that portion of this proposal from stable decision 1.5 to fix art Alpha and the intention is we've done testing to make sure that we can actually do the training on that using the creative common data set and the cost of the training should be same if not lower than what it would have costed us to do stable decision one or five. And so that's kind of the plan right. Now. The training is expected to start this week. The provider bring up is in progress right now shimpa. I don't know if he's on the call is working on the provider bring up right now and you'll be seeing a lot of updates from our marketing team through our Twitter handle on this training as it progresses. So if there's any questions, let us know but that's kind of the plan with that, and then + +Anil Murty: I'll keep looking at the chat if there's any questions about that, but I want to move on to the next discussion topic piyush since you're on the call. Maybe you can talk about your proposals. So I know that you are initially proposed a much bigger proposal. The one that is outlined here that included four or five different things including this deployment tool and then Greg you and I had a conversation and we talked about how the deployment tool is the most important thing for us to tackle right now and since then your scope it down to just the deployment tool which is what this proposal is. So maybe talk a little bit about it and we can have a discussion about this. + +Piyush Choudhary: If so responding so much for and going roaming Productions and I would like to thank all the costs protein organizers and at the throne organizers as well. So we participated in the classic account with this project and we surprisingly gone the first price and very good to the choice for selectness as a first winner and we really appreciate it. So this proposal is an extended version of that project only. So basically what we are doing here is + +00:40:00 + +Piyush Choudhary: we have created a pipeline like even the new users for new to Apostle be able to deploy or get started with the cost within just requests. So what this proposal does is it combines AI or Mission capabilities using open source elements specifically trained on the data set of Docker file and hdf files. So basically takes the GitHub report and ask the users of degrades and we'll basically puts the GitHub report from the guitar users account and then it writes a doctor file and it's on and then it will say image as well on its own and then it pushes the + +Piyush Choudhary: The oper image to the personal Docker Hub of the user's account and then it also writes the perfect as working as dual file based on the users input how much his pleasure what's is and story is requirements and all so basically this is a combination of things It's a direct pipeline from GitHub repo the STL file, which can then be deployed using Cloud nodes to a caution + +Piyush Choudhary: I also have the video don't know so it's only wants to see and drop them into the channel. + +Piyush Choudhary: So it's just a quick and… + +Anil Murty: Thanks. + +Piyush Choudhary: it's just a quick and this and repeat that we did as part of backathon and this purpose are presents to Industrial standard product. That will be presentation if we get approved on a proposal. + +Anil Murty: Thanks piy Thanks for walking through that a little bit. So I guess I do have a couple of questions and then if anybody else has any questions you take those as well, but I guess my main questions are this I think is extremely useful as a tool. + +Anil Murty: The sort of three questions number one is outside of people asking the questions that they have using the language interface. + +Piyush Choudhary: up + +Anil Murty: Is it potentially going to be a option for people to do this manually as well as opposed to asking a question into a chatbot? + +Piyush Choudhary: Yep, so it will have the functionality of that as far as we are using that you see. + +Anil Murty: Okay, So basically if I can imagine how this would potentially look like from a user experience standpoint is people coming to Cloud most this is going to be built on top of the cloud most UI. They have the option of choosing either,… + +Piyush Choudhary: we + +Anil Murty: ask a question. Hey, how do I deploy blah application on Akash and it potentially comes up with a container image and an STL that they can use for it. or other option would be they would actually go, point the potential repo to GitHub people as a link and then you'd have a pipeline where you basically look at that create the container image and deploy. + +Piyush Choudhary: that's + +Anil Murty: Second question you talked about in this proposal and again apologize. I'm not read it in super crazy detail yet. I did notice you mentioned training this on a set of 178 thousand rocker files in GitHub folders structures published under MIT. so two questions on this one is if our primary focus is on how does training it on this entire data another way to ask is would this do more than just solve the use case for Akash? + +Piyush Choudhary: + +Piyush Choudhary: If so, basically we are not training on all the data of concerned with 8,000 is just for the reference. So we are refining the database. We are taking this Terror set and then defining it and dividing into small Trunks and then basically what does this data set content is it contains the coldest structure and + +Piyush Choudhary: Output of the file. So basically what will happen is as we are creating a proper pipeline from taking a bit of the code to writing the proper I still file right? So basically what we are doing is when the user is pointing I get to that point to the user interface. AI model is scanning the folder structure and writing the proper Docker file to build the So after writing the docker file on itself dates Docker image and then push the operating is to the personal Docker that the users account and then it sites as jail file using the image that it created on the record. So local file is a part of the pipeline and then also there's + +00:45:00 + +Anil Murty: Got it. how would you intend to manage this as the data set evolved? So is it going to be potentially updates to this as over time as you get new data and you need to retrain this? + +Piyush Choudhary: so Yeah, So basically what's going initially by going to gain the less data set for internal testings. And then I spell the response to the morals and how it's performing what are the responses the failureates ETC we are going to refine the data sets accordingly because we are not asking the uses to write the doctor file on their own we are. Also writing the local file inside the pipeline only in automated fashion similar to what we are doing for the SGL file. So even the users who don't know Docker Hub or Akash will be able to have the working sgc5 to just Deploy on Apache using cloudmuse in place. yeah, and there will be a bit as we train the models and of course the performance and I will also drop the docs that we created recently in the chat or the discussions for + +Piyush Choudhary: how we are going to do Invisibles. + +Anil Murty: Okay, sounds awesome. Just a couple of more questions and I see there's no other questions from anyone. So I'm going to keep going the provider that you'll be training this on. Have you thought about? Who that will be managing that provider? I'm assuming it's going to be an Akash provider. + +Anil Murty: And you did mention the types of resources you expect to use for this in terms of gpus in other things. Have you thought about who the provider is going to be that sort of thing? + +Piyush Choudhary: Yeah, so basically will be using the passion proc for the juices will be meeting the access to the a100 Jeep use about five way so we'll be looking forward to that and the budget that is being request will be spend on the training as well as the hosting part we've also mentioned that when somebody will be released completely for the industry for the public use we will also maintain it for the five months including the hostings maintenance and support. + +Anil Murty: but it Got it. + +Piyush Choudhary: from this budget + +Anil Murty: So a couple of things on that one is if you haven't decided to provide I think Zach os the call. So Zach Ross is with Foundry staking there are provider that has a bunch of a 100. So to be awesome if you could work together with them. To do this video like data set? + +Piyush Choudhary: Get the show. + +Anil Murty: Or sorry on that provider. and then the other thing I was going to ask was do you have a sense for the breakdown between how much the training cost or… + +Piyush Choudhary: So it will be hard to give the exact back we've done right now,… + +Anil Murty: the 63,000 is versus development and hosting + +Piyush Choudhary: but I can drop that out. within next viewers + +Anil Murty: Sounds but yeah, it doesn't have to be super accurate. If you can just get basically a sense of what even 100 hours are going to be and from that we can derive it doesn't even have to be like if it's with an image of 10 20% is fine just or if you can even like a breakdown of input as a percentage like 50 40 60 whatever that is. Okay. And… + +Piyush Choudhary: works + +Anil Murty: then last question is I noticed that in the first proposal where this. Deployment thing was one out of four items that he proposed the cost for the deployment thing was fifty thousand and already 63. + +Piyush Choudhary: he So initially we thought of doing the African giving a proper thoughts on part of the resources are required and… + +Anil Murty: It's like why? + +Piyush Choudhary: doing the property search that as you can see this proposition and also the Integrations with the cloud moves the building of proper APK and points for the proper and the smooth Integrations. So we increased it accordingly. + +Anil Murty: Got Cook sounds good. Yeah, that's all my questions. I think this is a great project amazing proposal really well written. I don't have this people that have other thoughts or questions Julius. + +Piyush Choudhary: Yeah, so Julius also of 8 to 10 people are including the first step developers designers where I am redox, so specifically AIML those are consist of trip people including a blockchain deaths on me and other so there are two blocks index three. Yeah milders who designers and straight instead of Developers. + +00:50:00 + +Anil Murty: Awesome, and I don't know Zach Ross or anybody from The Foundry seeking team if you were listening to this, but I think it'd be awesome. For this training to happen on your cluster or your service. + +Zach Ross: Yeah, I think that's exactly what we're here for. So let's collaborate on that and we're totally open to making that work. + +Anil Murty: It's Perfect. And I think this also give us good marketing. So thankfully you're listening as Yeah, let's see. I mean under any other opposition to the proposal. I think overall he seems like people are in favor of this… + +Piyush Choudhary: e + +Anil Murty: but most something on the comment as well. And so the intention piyush is you'll put this on chain sometime in the next. we go to + +Anil Murty: okay, sounds good. + +Anil Murty: Anyone else on the call want to talk about any other of these discussions? represent the person that has written them. + +Deval Patel: Okay. + +Anil Murty: Go ahead. They will. + +Deval Patel: I got a message from one guy named Joseph on Discord saying he has some Enterprise users he wants to. Put some workloads. You want to showcase us the demo of how the workloads can be uploaded on Akash and how we can host on the services right? If you want. I can give you a call between you and + +Deval Patel: like him right so you can go from there. I Yeah. + +Anil Murty: That sounds great. Yeah, please do hit me up. I'll actually vmu in we can figure out a call between us. + +Deval Patel: Okay. + +Anil Murty: Thank you for bringing that up. + +Anil Murty: Go ahead. + +Tyler Wright: Only thing I'll add I know we talked about in sick economics. I won't talk about it too long. But related to the proposal for the incentivize akt lending pool on nitron. I think there was some good discussion over the last couple of weeks and that proposals since gone on chain. I think number of validators have voted on it already. So I just want to just highlight that because again, it is an active vote being had right now. But again we talked about in the state economics a fair amount and there was some good discussion around it. So I know the person may not be here, but the way through the process and that again proposals up for vote right now, so just want to share that. + +Anil Murty: Great sounds good moving back to this. I guess that's about the extent of today's call. Is there any other General open questions from anyone that you would like to speak up at this point? + +Anil Murty: I guess I'll stop presenting in and things back to you. Later. Thanks, everyone. + +Tyler Wright: Perfect. Thank you very much. Anil for meeting us through the agenda. + +Tyler Wright: I'm again, if anybody has any action items over the next couple of days or weeks, please let me know if anybody wants to demo anything at the next I'm steering committee. Please let me know again, we'll go back to the typical agenda where these happen at the end of the month, but I appreciate everybody making the time today. I know that there's been more people getting active in discussions on GitHub so much appreciate that. I know there's a number of people that reached out about being able to support documentation. with memory many members of the core team being very high for focused on engineering efforts. I'm really calling upon the community to help with documentation. And again, there's a framework that's being developed right now to help structure community and put on documentation side. So, please look out for that soon. But again, please feel free like you can participate in any special interest group. We're working group. There's a lot going on a lot of great discussions having around happening around content moderation and analytics a number others specific action. + +Tyler Wright: teams if anybody needs anything between meetings, feel free to reach out to myself or Other members of the core team insiders in vanguards and again look out for more information coming around that may not main at eight upgrade happening shortly. But no one has any other questions. And again, thank you very much for your participation today. And we'll see you on Discord and in future especially interest group and working group meetings. Thank you all very much. Have a great day. + +Meeting ended after 00:55:58 👋 + diff --git a/sig-analytics/README.md b/sig-analytics/README.md index 0b899dbf..1e5e8b6b 100644 --- a/sig-analytics/README.md +++ b/sig-analytics/README.md @@ -29,8 +29,7 @@ Analytics Special Interest Group is dedicated to defining and building tools tha | #7 | Thursday, August 10, 2023 09:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-analytics/meetings/007-2023-08-11.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-analytics/meetings/007-2023-08-11.md#transcript) |[Link](https://kqbknw24m7hpcjg4hfd2dtg4ozhiqsi4zbjdtjycxw6omyhzvfka.arweave.net/VAKm21xnzvEk3DlHoczcdk6ISRzIUjmnAr285mD5qVQ) | #8 | Thursday, September 14, 2023 09:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-analytics/meetings/008-2023-09-14.md) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-analytics/meetings/008-2023-09-14.md#Transcript) | [Link](https://t5tmhypnhybd3jpbk3amizf6m2pl66msvvbhlqjyqnynouil4ksa.arweave.net/n2bD4e0-Aj2l4VbAxGS-Zp6_eZKtQnXBOINw11EL4qQ) | #9 | Thursday, October 12, 2023 09:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-analytics/meetings/009-2023-10-12.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-analytics/meetings/009-2023-10-12.md#transcript) | [Link](https://v5ixigio4enkf7qhvlmzfptnlx6zkdite2skrznyil2d3xih6ana.arweave.net/r1F0GQ7hGqL-B6rZkr5tXf2VDRMmpKjluEL0Pd0H8Bo) -| #10 | Thursday, November 09, 2023 09:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | -| #11 | Thursday, December 14, 2023 09:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | +| #10 | Thursday, December 14, 2023 09:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | diff --git a/sig-chain/meetings/011-2023-11-08.md b/sig-chain/meetings/011-2023-11-08.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..80d67479 --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-chain/meetings/011-2023-11-08.md @@ -0,0 +1,200 @@ +# Akash Network - Chain Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #10 + +## Agenda + +- Discuss upcoming network upgrades. +- Discussion on Github Discussion 309 +- Open discussion of chain related issues. + +## Meeting Details + +- Date: Wednesday, November 8th, 2023 +- Time: 09:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://sshyyg4r3uoeixzudilhwdkncekgk3yw5m6mulso6foidluersuq.arweave.net/lI-MG5HdHERfNBoWew1NERRlbxbrPMouTvFcga6EjKk) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + + +## Participants + +- Artur Troian +- Deval Patel +- Jigar Patel +- Scott Carruthers +- Tony Stark +- Tyler Wright + + +## Notes + +- Artur talked about the binary update today. +- Previously there were limitations on the Network. +- This fix is non consensus breaking, but it is configuration breaking. Binary update is planned for an hour or so. +- Deval asked if providers are going to be updated as well. Artur says providers can use the older version, but they cannot bid on workloads. +- Artur talked about the impending network upgrade. Artur talked about this issue. +- Mainnet 8 will introduce resource offer into the bid. The idea is that in the future, provider will be able to offer different configurations. +- Governance Proposal and block height will be coming soon. +- Artur talked about a draft of implementation for Packet forwarding. That is the upgrade after Mainnet 8. This will either happen in December 2023 or January 2024. +- CosmosSDK 0.50 has been released this week. Akash is on 0.45x. Core teams plans to wait for some time to see other changes moving. No plans to move over the next 6 months. +- Deval needs help with CRD, as they work on provider services code changes for Content moderation. +- Deval will update the project issue in Github with specific questions. +- Artur would like all code base questions or ideas to go in Github, where he and others can comment in 1 specific place. Feel free to tag Artur on github for comment. + + +### Action Items + +- Binary update happening today. +- Tyler and Artur going to plan for Mainnet 8 upgrade. + + +# **Transcript** + +_This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created._ + +Tyler Wright: Hello perfect timing. I took welcome everybody to Sig chain monthly meeting. I believe this is number 10. + +Tyler Wright: during the special interest groups for chain or blockchain. We talk about all things related to the Akash blockchain some Cosmos stuff as well as Network upgrades or anything like that. I know that there is a network upgrade potentially planned for the end of the month. The Firm dates will be clarified either today or sometime soon on chess. This will be not only a note upgrade but also provider upgrade and I know that prior to that there is also potential upgrade happening so lots of talk about I just wanted to make sure that the Patriot team is here because I know sometimes in the past some of the provider upgrade has affected their impressed. I just want to make sure that they have the ability to ask any questions in real time or just here in real time kind of what's going on and what the game. + +Tyler Wright: Without further Ado. I know that again. We have a couple of issues. I think those issue number 136 which is around the network upgrade mainnet 8. As well as another issue number 140. I'll link both of those issues and in the chat. Last month Archer gave us an update and all things related to upgrade to mainnet seven. I know there was some things that are being worked out to round the validator submission. Those things have been fixed and we talked about those at the last meeting. + +Tyler Wright: and then there was a team that put forth a discussion related to some Akash akt 2.0 work on that. They wanted to help Implement in the ask a couple of questions to Archer related to icq and some of the next steps there. So what the discussion that happened at the previous Big Chain meeting but again the topic of discussion for this month rather. Is around issue number 136 and then I believe that there's another issue number one forward. To Archer. I'll hand it over to you to get us going with. the topics of discussion + +Artur Troian: a guitar Yeah, so first and foremost, we are having the binary update today. This is rather. Urgent but not security issue. So historically we have had limitations on how many compute resources can be requested by deployment. And we put some logic into the transaction validation. Just making sure that people do not abuse it at the early stage of the network. And so we really debut if you want to go. the demand for high performance applications deployment. Sorry has been increasing and years and they had requests that somebody wanted to deploy. + +Artur Troian: Service with the four replicas each requesting 256 CPUs. So right now the limit is maximum 512 CPUs per deployment which obviously example of such request me go through. So we have made a new release called 26.2. Which is non-consensus breaking but this is configuration breaking. So what pretty much happens is We need to thirds of war in power to apply the new binary that will allow configurations with. Higher limits to be passed through and including blocks. The sensitively we're gonna have a binary update in an hour or so. + +Artur Troian: We had somebody dieders to apply update actually right now, which is not the good thing so they had a crash issues. So we asked them to roll it back and wait until we do it in the more or less centralized manner. And this is it for that case any questions? + +Artur Troian: Okay, moving on to the other things. Let me share screen. Okay? + +Deval Patel: So sorry to conditions. So after the binary update we are planning to update the providers binary as well, right? + +00:05:00 + +Artur Troian: Yeah, so providers + +Deval Patel: and just go ahead. + +Artur Troian: Yes, so the idea is the max that the first of all we want to update validators and RPC nodes to make sure they have upper hirings for the configuration requests for the resource requests. Providers can be still using the old version. They just won't be able to be on the deployments with a higher resource request So as soon as we confident that majority of the radiators are updated and the network is stable. We will be communicating to Providers to start picking up the 4.7 version of the provider. + +Deval Patel: Okay. I'm just asking… + +Artur Troian: All right. + +Deval Patel: because we plan to provide one click update for the version 4.7. Right and I just want to know that there is nothing change in terms of other than the command space that are the helmetric space the same right? + +Artur Troian: Yeah. yeah, there's no changes to an apis. + +Deval Patel: configuration Okay. + +Artur Troian: So when those breaking changes are in place we have them in there is not so this one is much change, so it doesn't break anything from Progressive. + +Artur Troian: moving on to the upcoming network of great, which is right now scheduled on November 20. so that one is once again Improvement requests from Washington clients and some analytics when provider does bid on Wild Card attributes + +Artur Troian: Especially for the gpus. It's not actually clear not for tenant or a safe almost. What kind of GPU provider offers for this record? So the minute 8 wheel introduce the attributes, which is pretty much. + +Artur Troian: Upgrades will introduce resource units into the beat actually resource offer. But right now we will be only attributes from the parts and idea of this entire offer is that in the future provider will be able to offer different configuration for political deployment. Let's say deployment asks for 128 CPUs but provider has only a hundred so provider should be super able to beat this offer less money. Probably, right? + +Artur Troian: And this upgrade is obviously the breaking change because it breaks the state so we gonna have to do migration which is done in the past as well as provider really change, too. Later this week. We will be having all of the instructions on how great it will be performed as well as the government proposal on the block height. + +Artur Troian: All right any questions with that? + +Artur Troian: And let me just check if you move 148. I think this is for it + +Artur Troian: Yes, so 140 is the internet. I just discussed that we gonna solve all tonight. release for + +Artur Troian: accustomed to release is out this 2.6. Sorry 0.2. + +Artur Troian: 26 0.26.2 and looks like all but that's our passing so we should be good to In case of anything goes wrong because that's not a medical grade. We can always go back to 26.1 just in case. And so that's it for current plans. There is a one upgrade that is being. + +Artur Troian: In work pretty much related to the packet forwarding so we have draft of implementation we need to do thorough testing of that. and right now I know maybe sometime in December if we Got time incorrect. If not. Then bucket forwarding will be available sometime after New Year. The other news for the blockchain and core customer SDK. 0.50 has been released this week. these are still on 40 five acts and honestly saying that the transition from 45 to 50 Is a realistic curve? + +00:10:00 + +Artur Troian: So what we're going to do is we are going to probably wait for quite a Time. seeing other chains my writing I believe they're gonna be quite a few watch fixes to the 0.50 in accord month so we would rather wait and see how it goes. Another challenge with this upgrade. Is this cosmosis Escape 0.50 is the entire code base is split into dozens of modules, which is introducing huge amount of complexity from the maintenance perspective. So we've got a hug this thing about the ways to do that properly. So let's say + +Artur Troian: at this stage if the request comes up, there won't be upgrade to point 50 in the next I would say maybe six months. or so so hopefully sometime after New Year, we're gonna have better quality on that. but From this time. I don't think we can. There's a reason to actually do that. And I think there will be for me and questions. + +Tyler Wright: Thank you so we talked about it again the binary update that's going to be happening and a little under an hour. Again. We will send out messaging to the validators when it's time for them to upgrade until that time. They should just be doing nothing and just sitting tight and then again beyond that we talked about the main that eight upgrade which is planned right now for November 20th. But again, there will be a governance proposal that'll go out prior to that with the exact blackheight and we'll make sure to update everybody across a number of different channels there and we'll stay closely linked with pray Tour on the provider side again, no only binary changes updates are happening today. So nothing else should be affected on the provider side. + +Tyler Wright: And then beyond that Artur talked a little bit about after the main data May net eight upgrade around packet forwarding that is going to be tested and some time in the near future. So we've been plenty going on. We've also talked about Cosmos SDK and our plans for console SDK in the near future. + +Deval Patel: for half an hour and then go through the things and guide me how to do the things in the provided service and the pull request so + +Artur Troian: What changes are you planning to? are you talking about? + +Deval Patel: We are planning to introduce a new CID for Content moderation where they should be able to add our greatest for blocking host name as well as the images and the wallet address. + +Artur Troian: I see. + +Deval Patel: So basically I'm trying to get that from presentation of getting things something like configuration. I'm trying to get those things from the CID, So once if anybody else that's CID and they put the values in there I should be able to access that right and based on that. I'll make decisions in that whether I should be able to meet So I figured out the part where we are not paid right? But I'm looking for help where I can put the cids and forward new CID please right that coding new CID is okay, right but adding proper Channel where I can get it data from right? that's challenging part. I'm trying to figure out right. + +00:15:00 + +Artur Troian: can you first maybe have is there an issue for that it helps or + +Deval Patel: That issue for that but not particularly the CID portion. it's in general form of. + +Artur Troian: I see. + +Artur Troian: so Yeah, unfortunately timing is a little bit weird frankly saying I don't think I will be able to do frankly saying next two weeks. + +Deval Patel: moderation API + +Deval Patel: Okay. + +Deval Patel: Okay. + +Artur Troian: Because we have also things going on this week and I will be meeting with team next week. So it's gonna be really tight my suggestion is write an issue + +Deval Patel: No. + +Deval Patel: Doors all so what I'll do that, I'll try to figure it out by going through all those things right if I need help then I'll message you right if you are able to help while Discord and that's fine, that's all. + +Artur Troian: I would say the best would be to maybe highlights implementation what you're trying to do? So that just in case… + +Deval Patel: Yeah. + +Artur Troian: if I can support anything on the early stage so you don't do some things and then apparently all then need to write it completely from scratch. So if you… + +Deval Patel: Yeah, sure. + +Artur Troian: if you outline the least of the things put them in GitHub destruction, I will be able to reply within a few hours after the you post it. make sure to tag me so I can see the rest. + +Deval Patel: Yeah. + +Deval Patel: Okay, sounds good. Thank you. + +Tyler Wright: Our turn let's do have any pushback on this. I was going to suggest there's already a Content moderation item in that project board the engineering and product roadmap project board that Deval and jigar have access to maybe they could just put the comments in that and then tag you there and then we could talk about at least of the high level during the engineering sinks. If you're able to attend prior to I know you're out of office next couple weeks with some work things. + +Artur Troian: Yeah, yeah that whatever is suitable. I just make sure that using GitHub. + +Tyler Wright: Okay, Yeah, so Deval, if you could put it inside that content moderation issue that you're already working on and in the comments, then we can handle it again Arctic respond very quickly in the comments via GitHub. + +Deval Patel: Yeah. + +Tyler Wright: Beautiful. Thank you. Does anybody else have any other chain or network upgrade related discussion or topics? + +Tyler Wright: Cool again, I know about 40 minutes away from the binary updates and then continuing to test and get ready for the next mainnet. Aid upgrade amongst the number of other things. thank you to Archer Scott and others for all the work that you all have been doing on the core team side. And again, thank you to our members of the community. Obviously. Thank you to pray to her for all the work that you do in supporting upgrade on the preacher side for many of the providers. So feel free to join more of these conversations where you can talk with the core team about anything Network up the greatest special as we get ready for mainnet 8 upgrade after today's events and then beyond that pack affording go ahead Arch. + +Artur Troian: So yeah, just sort of probably my suggestion so whenever you have Think that you guys want to improve our physics. This is going to be the I need help from engineering the best way just make sure to put the discussion in the GitHub. Not the Discord. So this court is mainly to General discussions and… + +Deval Patel: Yeah. + +Artur Troian: thoughts But if that relates to whatever happens to the core product. I mean blockchain as well as a provider is going to be the quickest way so I can take a look and apply there. + +Artur Troian: And as soon as we see that discussion in the GitHub either Scott or me, or maybe Autumn even can just jump in and reply if you don't reply don't hesitate to just tag us or then if you don't reply just being in this score that's why the conversation isn't going + +00:20:00 + +Deval Patel: Thank you. + +Tyler Wright: Thank you Alright, I think that wraps up the agenda for today again. If anybody has any questions, feel free to drop those in GitHub specifically around this special interest group because it's very technical if anybody needs me for anything. Feel free to reach out to me via Discord or get GitHub. But again, appreciate your all time today. Look out for some changes happening on the binary today. Again Patriot team will keep you up to date after hopefully the successful upgrade or updates over the next hour and when the providers should be upgrading and then we'll follow up with some more information to the main updates coming soon. upgrade comes in + +Tyler Wright: All right, everyone. Have a great rest of the day. Again. If anyone needs anything today, please feel free to reach out to myself Artur others, but we'll be getting ready for this binary update happening in the next 40 minutes or so. Appreciate everybody. We'll talk soon. Bye. + +Artur Troian: restaurant + +Jigar Patel: Right. Thanks guys. + +Meeting ended after 00:21:20 👋 + diff --git a/sig-design/README.md b/sig-design/README.md index 86dae30d..9f26b6e4 100644 --- a/sig-design/README.md +++ b/sig-design/README.md @@ -22,10 +22,10 @@ date: 2023-1-09T00:19:20-08:00 | #5 | Wednesday, May 10, 2023 09:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/005-2023-05-10.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/005-2023-05-10.md#transcript) | Coming Soon | #6 | Wednesday, June 14, 2023 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/006-2023-06-14.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/006-2023-06-14.md#transcript) | [Link](https://inlakgk4lzlfmrveddowlqvf3olzpxeklmrjdksle6defao4ehea.arweave.net/Q1YFGVxeVlZGpBjdZcKl25eX3IpbIpGqSyeGQoHcIcg) | #7 | Wednesday, July 12, 2023 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/007-2023-07-12.md) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/007-2023-07-12.md#transcript) | [Link](https://4v5gjbxldak3kwlx7jbkp2gcgp4ovvbf6q67ue2oyp22w2guavua.arweave.net/5XpkhusYFbVZd_pCp-jCM_jq1CX0PfoTTsP1q2jUBWg) -| #8 | Wednesday, August 09, 2023 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) |Coming Soon |Coming Soon |[Link](https://7hbbbiaiqssx7redpnzevdfif3smtvixbsd6uahwjtqugqcndxia.arweave.net/-cIQoAiEpX_Eg3tySoyoLuTJ1RcMh-oA9kzhQ0BNHdA) -| #9 | Wednesday, September 13, 2023 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | -| #10 | Wednesday, October 11, 2023 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | -| #11 | Wednesday, November 08, 2023 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | +| #8 | Wednesday, August 09, 2023 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/008-2023-08-09.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/008-2023-08-09.md#transcript)|[Link](https://7hbbbiaiqssx7redpnzevdfif3smtvixbsd6uahwjtqugqcndxia.arweave.net/-cIQoAiEpX_Eg3tySoyoLuTJ1RcMh-oA9kzhQ0BNHdA) +| #9 | Wednesday, September 13, 2023 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | Coming Soon | Coming Soon | Coming Soon +| #10 | Wednesday, October 11, 2023 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/010-2023-10-11.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-design/meetings/010-2023-10-11.md#transcript)| [Link](https://lpgpnhvzo3h4wr6vc7qy5rggghi2qztpqj6krjuzlevcmcypf63q.arweave.net/W8z2nrl2z8tH1RfhjsTGMdGoZm-CfKimmVkqJgsPL7c) +| #11 | Wednesday, November 08, 2023 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) |Coming soon | Coming soon| Coming sson | #12| Wednesday, December 13, 2023 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | | #13| Wednesday, January 10, 2024 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | | #14| Wednesday, February 14, 2024 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | diff --git a/sig-documentation/README.md b/sig-documentation/README.md index d2b283d1..2d1a0ac4 100644 --- a/sig-documentation/README.md +++ b/sig-documentation/README.md @@ -25,7 +25,7 @@ The goal of this SIG is to foster a community around the creation and maintenanc | #7 | Tuesday, July 25, 2023 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/007-2023-07-25.md) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/007-2023-07-25.md#transcript) |[Link](https://vxe3skefb3gv6igjgmwqlzhkfhsvltmzf4cufajqw6yuzh46wana.arweave.net/rcm5KIUOzV8gyTMtBeTqKeVVzZkvBUKBMLexTJ-esBo) | #8 | Tuesday, August 22, 2023 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/008-2023-08-22.md) |[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/008-2023-08-22.md#transcript) |[Link](https://53oqqojl3emoys343dhzcfp5hsfmcs2q4r4kiah4wn3wj77pbyta.arweave.net/7t0IOSvZGOxLfNjPkRX9PIrBS1DkeKQA_LN3ZP_vDiY) | #9 | Tuesday, September 26, 2023 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/008-2023-09-26.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/008-2023-09-26.md#transcript)| [Link](https://dknymsd25d4wo4gbxp6435niarkm3ugz7f6onipsi7r7aoghn72q.arweave.net/GpuGSHro-Wdwwbv9zfWoBFTN0Nn5fOah8kfj8DjHb_U) -| #10 | Tuesday, October 24, 2024 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | Coming Soon | Coming Soon | Coming Soon +| #10 | Tuesday, October 24, 2024 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/010-2023-10-24.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-documentation/meetings/010-2023-10-24.md#transcript) | [Link](https://j7umqwzmkiglhuckkezav7c2rbh4cirv4d2nrjophespxwsjqtxa.arweave.net/T-jIWyxSDLPQSlEyCvxaiE_BIjXg9Nilzzkk-9pJhO4) | #11 | Tuesday, November 28, 2024 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | | #12 | Tuesday, December 26, 2023 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | | #13 | Tuesday, January 23, 2024 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | | | diff --git a/sig-documentation/meetings/010-2023-10-24.md b/sig-documentation/meetings/010-2023-10-24.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..16c888e2 --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-documentation/meetings/010-2023-10-24.md @@ -0,0 +1,229 @@ +# Akash Network - Docs Special Interest Group - Meeting #10 +## Agenda +- Update on Documentation +- Docs 2.0 Effort + +## Meeting Details +- Date: Tuesday, October 24th, 2023 +- Time: 7:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://j7umqwzmkiglhuckkezav7c2rbh4cirv4d2nrjophespxwsjqtxa.arweave.net/T-jIWyxSDLPQSlEyCvxaiE_BIjXg9Nilzzkk-9pJhO4) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants +- Damir Simpovic +- Denis Lelic +- Dimokus +- Emmanuel Arthur +- George Pro +- Samuel Walker +- Joao Luna +- Tyler Wright + +## Metting Notes + +### Docs 2.0 effort +#### Tyler: +- Appreciated the work done by Luna and the Quasarch team. +- Mentioned Piyush and his team's involvement in optimizing the efforts and the availability of the repository. +- Mentioned that the [repository is now public](https://github.com/akash-network/new-docs) for everyone's access. +- Highlighted the work done by Quasarch in the migration from Gitbook to Hugo and optimization of the structure. +- Discussed ongoing efforts related to optimizing docs 2.0. +- Mentioned that these efforts are being passed to Piyush and the website revamp team for completion. +- Highlighted that Scott has been working on technical documentation for developers focusing on the Akash network code base. +- Announced the inclusion of this documentation in multiple places, specifically in the docs 2.0 site for accessibility by developers. +- Noted that this documentation targets those developing and building on top of Akash. + +### Call for Additional Contributors to Documentation +#### Tyler: +- Discussed the need for additional contributors to create, edit, and update documentation. +- Mentioned that Scott had led this effort with support from Andre, but Scott's focus has shifted more towards the Engineering Core team and Overclock Labs. +- Encouraged community members to contribute to technical documentation following the structure laid out by Scott. +- Highlighted that there are rewards available for those contributing to documentation. +- Noted that Scott has many responsibilities within Overclock Labs, making community support essential for maintaining and improving documentation. + +### Consideration of Video Documentation +#### Tyler: +- Mentioned the recent monthly meeting where video documentation was a significant topic of discussion. +- Noted that while there is substantial written documentation on Akash and elsewhere, there is a growing demand for video documentation. +- Highlighted the ongoing work by Andre on videos related to deploying stable diffusion. +- Mentioned that other community members have expressed interest in creating video guides or tutorials for specific tasks to be included on the documentation pages. +- Indicated that this has been a focal point of discussion within the group for documentation over the last month or two. + +### Update on Documentation +#### Scott Carruthers: +- Shared an update on new documentation. +- Mentioned that new documentation has been relatively light due to necessity. +- Highlighted the addition of documentation on stable payment deployments. +- Explained that the stable payment process is currently somewhat cumbersome but has been simplified by conducting all actions within Leap Wallet. +- Anticipated the introduction of 'taker forwarding' to further streamline the process. + +### Support for Sandbox +#### Scott Carruthers: +- Discussed the recent shift in supporting the use of the sandbox for new user experimentation. +- Noted that significant resources are now available for using the sandbox as the preferred method for new user experimentation. +- Highlighted that manual processes for supplying new users with Akt, faucets, have faced challenges due to fraud protection measures. +- Mentioned that there have been weekly requests for minor edits in the documentation, which have been addressed. + +### Whitelisting Changes on Sandbox +- Tyler asked Scott about the requirement for whitelisted wallet addresses for users of the sandbox. +- Scott explained that the requirements for using the sandbox have changed. +- Scott mentioned that the whitelisting requirement has been temporarily removed. +- Scott clarified that users currently do not need to be on the address whitelist to use the sandbox. +- Scott indicated that while the current guardrails have been lifted, there may be the need for additional safeguards in the future. +- Scott discussed potential policies to address abuse, such as workloads running for extended periods. + +### Leap Wallet and Documentation Needs +- Denis inquired about the possibility of deploying with Leap Wallet through Cloudmos. +- Denis mentioned that he had heard positive feedback about Leap Wallet and was interested in its deployment capabilities. +- Scott responded that people who have used Leap Wallet often find it to be a superior experience. +- Scott noted that the Cloudmos team has been looking at adding Leap Wallet support, and it may already be in place or close to being implemented. +- Denis suggested the need for an additional section in the documentation to cover tokens and wallets, particularly Leap Wallet. +- Scott agreed that once Leap Wallet support is in place and tested, documentation would be necessary. + +### Other Matters Discussed +- Samuel inquired about developer guidelines related to documentation and any specific standards to follow when submitting PRs. +- Tyler asked Scott if there are established guidelines or standards for developer documentation. +- Scott responded that there are no strict guidelines for developer documentation. +- Scott suggested looking at the structure and layout of existing documentation for reference. +- Scott mentioned that there might be some initial back and forth when submitting a PR for documentation, but the process usually becomes smoother. + +## Action Items +- Group to continue to update and improve documentation. +- Group to make Leap Wallet documentation available. + +# **Transcript** + +_This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created._ + +Tyler Wright: All Welcome everybody to SIG, documentation monthly meeting number nine, I believe. Or Number 10, During these special interest groups for documentation the group gets together and talks any you recommendation on the Akash network talks about documentation updates, Denis, who's been in the background? I know there's some work happening across multiple CIGS and working groups. Right now, with the Working Group of Cash website, taking on some of the efforts of the front, end of the documentation site. Luna, and the quasarch team did a great job of + +Tyler Wright: of migrating, some of the documentation from Getbook. And now, it's, again, open source that they have it on Hugo. Those efforts are not going to be in vain, as again, a lot of work has been done by Luna and the Price Arch team so much appreciate their efforts. What's happening now is again Piyush and his team that are working on the revamp of the website are going to be taking the efforts and just optimizing them that repository is available. Here, I'll drop it in. It was private for some time but now it's public. So again, everybody should have access to win. This is again the work from Quasarch and a. on their efforts on the migration and optimization of the structuring + +Tyler Wright: So again, there's been some efforts happening for a number of docs meetings related to optimizing docs 2.0. And again, those efforts are being passed now to piyush and the website revamp team to get those over the line. As there's going to be a revamped website coming very soon. + +Tyler Wright: In addition, some of those efforts that Scott has been working on in the background that have been talked about in SIG documentation over, a number of meetings are going to be added in number of places. Again, Some of the documentation is going to be brought in to the docs 2.0 site and made accessible for developers. Scott Carruthers, who's on this call, has been working on a number of pieces of documentation for developers. For more technical folks that dive deeper into the Akash network, the code base. And again, is designed more for folks that are developing building on top of Akash and so that documentation will be shared very soon. But again, Scott has done a lot of work there and that documentation will be leveraged both on the dockside and a number of other places that focus on developer experience and developer getting started. + +Tyler Wright: So much appreciated Scott and his efforts there. + +Tyler Wright: One other thing that were looking for is additional people that want to create edit and update documentation in the past, it's been an effort. That's been led by Scott with support from Andre. Andre is going to continue to stay involved in documentation, Scott, a little bit here and there, but with Scott's increased need and presence in the Engineering Core team and overclock labs, and is desire and his need to be heads down with engineering efforts. Again, we are asking for more folks in the community, to be able to contribute to documentation. And even if there is a language barrier, again, some of this documentation is very technical and the structures already been laid out by Scott. So, it's just about creating PRS and then again, whether it be internally, or again, members of the community, we can find folks that kind of edit and optimize those + +Tyler Wright: trees. Damir. Go ahead. I know you had your hand up. + +Damir Simpovic: No, you answered my question. So, Thank you. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah. And again there are rewards available for those that want to help contribute to documentation because it is certainly a need as many folks on this call know that are involved in discord and helping new and existing users interact with the Akash network. But again with Scott already wearing so many hats within the Overclock Labs organization. Now on being more heads down on engineering we're certainly calling upon the community to step up a little bit more and be able to provide some support in developing existing documentation, and making updates where they see where it needed. + +Tyler Wright: Anyone have any questions about any of those next steps? Again, if anybody wants to feel free to drop a message in SIG, documentation and we can take it from there, or, you can feel free to DM me as well. + +00:05:00 + +Tyler Wright: Cool out of the last monthly meeting. One of the big topics. I was discussed by a member. That's not here. Currently today was video documentation. I know that again there's a great written documentation both on a docs out of cash on network, as well as elsewhere. But there was a call for folks that maybe + +Tyler Wright: Respond to have some more video documentation on how to do specific things. I know that Andre has been working on some videos related to deploying stable, diffusion in eight minutes or less. But again, other community members have talked about the idea of potentially creating video guides or video tutorials for specific things that can go on the documentation pages. So, that's something that we can talk more about async but that's something that's been top of mind for folks, in this special interest group for documentation over the last month or two. + +Tyler Wright: other than that, + +Tyler Wright: Scott, I know that you have been working documentation adjacent and hopefully less and less. So over time. So we can rely on more people from the community. Is there anything on the new documentation side that maybe is worth talking about? Or does anybody on this call have anything that they want to ask about documentation wise? I'll start with you Scott. + +Scott Carruthers: Yes, I knew doumentation. I'm going to share my screen. So new documentation has definitely been. Pretty light, just out of necessity. It hasn't really been that much so they only ones that I can think of that have been added since our last SIG documentation meeting is stable payment deployments. So this is + +Scott Carruthers: a processes a little bit cumbersome right now. We've made it as less cumbersome as possible by doing everything within leap wallet. I'm so doing transfer of to Usdc and A leap wallet and then doing the IBC transfer all within Leap wallet is going to be introducing something called taka forwarding soon that it's gonna make this process, even less cumbersome. So again if someone was really interested in stable payments it's definitely possible today obviously, both from SDL perspective so we documented the inclusion of stable payments in SDL documentation several weeks ago. And then in the last couple weeks out of this stable, payment deployment, documentation, there were some bugs and leapball that we had to Wait for ratification before I could publish After the last meeting at upgrade. But those are solved. So again. + +Scott Carruthers: I don't think it's incredibly cumbersome, but it's a little bit cumbersome. Using stable payments today but I will just become easier and easier. Over time. so, that's probably the biggest documentation addition, since our last session the other one is not Necessarily an addition, but more just a shifts. and as I announced to insiders in Vanguards, over the last several weeks were now, supporting sandbox. We have a significant enough resources to use the sandbox as our preferred method for new user experimentation, which is obviously great taking away some of the manual efforts of Supplying new users with Akt, fossil hasn't been working for a while because of fraud protection necessities. So it's been a manual process to get users started. But now we have enough resources in sandbox again to Love this. Be our + +Scott Carruthers: Suggested method for experimentation. So I shifted the sandbox documentation from periment Now into the production, Documentation under deployments. I think that's and obviously there's been weekly. There's some requests that come up for minor edits. I'm sure there's been some of that over the last several weeks, as well, but I think those two documentation ads are the only real significant additions. + +Scott Carruthers: That days here. Someone has their hand up. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, Scott quick question on the sandbox front or is there still a requirement for whitelisted wallet, addresses for folks that are using the sandbox? Sorry if this is common knowledge and I just didn't read + +Scott Carruthers: Yeah, and so We're gonna. Start a gauge. How sandbox is used over the upcoming weeks and months we took the safeguards off those guardrails off of the white listing for now. So no directly answer the question. You don't need to be on the address whitest about to use this sandbox currently. So those guardrails have been removed to remove some of the friction and new users getting started. There's also other safeguards in guardrails that we might need to put into place eventually as time goes on. So the most prominent or obvious one is potentially, if we see some abuse from mining activity and other kinds of activities, we may need to put in policies in place where + +00:10:00 + +Scott Carruthers: workloads that are running for more than 24 hours or 48 hours or whatever. That threshold would be automatically removed in Kubernetes. We haven't seen that kind of abuse of people trying to run long running persistent workloads yet. So we're not putting those guardrails in place on day one, but we may need to if possible, we couldn't reenact the address white listing and the duration of deployment workloads in the future, but we don't find any for those guardrails currently. + +Tyler Wright: Excellent, Scott. Thank you very much. + +Scott Carruthers: Sure. + +Tyler Wright: One other thing I go ahead, Denis. + +Denis Lelic: Sorry was muted one. Quick thought regarding the wallet. I know Kepler has been kind of like our to wallet but I've been hearing a lot of good things about the leap wallet. + +Denis Lelic: Is there, I'm not really sure if it's possible to deploy with it through cloudmose. I haven't tried it. + +Scott Carruthers: Yeah. So Yes,… + +Denis Lelic: Because I don't. + +Scott Carruthers: we would agree that I think people that have used leap wallet find it to be a superior experience. So, I would have to go back and check. I know that the cloud most team was looking at adding leak wallet support. And I think it actually might already be in place or there's a PR in place, that's eminent. + +Denis Lelic: Know. + +Scott Carruthers: So, it's either possible today or will be possible and then your future to use leap wallet and cloud most for deployment purposes. So yeah, we completely agree. We would prefer to I'm altered sleep. Well, + +Denis Lelic: So let's then we would need something like, additional section at the documentation for we were talking about tokens and wallets, Like something for the leap wallet. + +Scott Carruthers: Yeah as soon as it's in place and tested it ready. + +Denis Lelic: Cool. + +Scott Carruthers: Yeah we'll definitely need some documentation around. Leapball is yeah. + +Denis Lelic: Yeah, that's it for my side. + +Tyler Wright: Good call out. good color. + +Tyler Wright: Is there any other documentation from anybody that's working with people in the community or anything else that might need updating or any other documentation? Anybody wants to talk about right now? + +Tyler Wright: Who. again if there's nothing else then I can certainly cut this short to manage folks time from folks that are in the insiders. And vanguards please spread the word that we're certainly interested in folks that want to contribute to documentation. There are Akt rewards available for folks that want to contribute to documentation. So, feel free to reach out to me or feel free to throw a message and sing documentation if you want to help. Again, there are folks in the community are thinking about video guides. So again, if anybody wants to contribute to those conversations or contribute to developing those guys, feel free to drop a message documentation as well. On top of that. Again, Scott mentioned, all the documentation that's going to be updated or excuse me, has already been updated and when + +Tyler Wright: Leap wallet available for folks that will be made available as well. The documentation will be updated as well. Is there anything else? I know that we got a couple of new folks here, we've been talking about some of Scott went over. Some of the changes that have been reflected in the current SIG documentation. We talked at a high level about Scott Carruthers, who's been leading efforts through support and has been doing a line share The documentation over last year has moved more into an engineering role within the Overclock Labs Core team. So we're really hoping that more people from the community want to step up and want to potentially earn Akt, rewards to help, write new documentation update, current documentation or see where again documentation can be improved and help support the documentation is open source. So we've been talking about again, getting more contributions. + +00:15:00 + +Tyler Wright: The community there. And again, we also talked about, there was an effort from the quasarch team. + +Tyler Wright: For many of the special interest groups and the spring and early summer around Docks 2.0 the efforts around the Dock 2.0 which makes improves the user experience around documentation has been passed off to Piyush and his team that are working on the website revamp. So, all that documentation that is now on Docs.com network will be moved to a network slash docs and is being optimized by Piyush and his team. So that again we can continue to optimize the user experience for those that are new and existing users that are trying to do different things from set up providers with ipleases, persistent storage or trying to deploy different kinds of workloads on Again, we have a great community of folks that is live and giving real-time feedback in discord, telegram and elsewhere, but we want to have the documentation, be a resource that people can, start and continue their own journeys. + +Tyler Wright: Something else that's also been talked about is adding videos to the docs for specific items. So maybe their best way of understanding is not through reading but maybe through video tutorials again. There's some folks in the community that are putting together some pitches and putting together, some examples of the kind of video that we want to have live on the documentation and in you and on YouTube, And then finally, again, we talked a little bit about leap wallet, which is something that's coming to the Akash network, it may live right now on cloud most. And once it's been tested by the internal team again, there will be some documentation added to docs out of cashnet.network. That will reflect how to use leapball, how to set that up and how to deploy using the wallet. + +Tyler Wright: Does anybody new or existing to this call? Have any questions or comments about anything documentation related that they want to talk about? + +Tyler Wright: Cool. + +Samuel Walker: Hey I'm new sorry about that. I'm leading you I think a nice thing… + +Tyler Wright: You're? + +Samuel Walker: which you will I am looking and have been kind of working with some of the documentation even to get my own kind of clusters. I've got my own stuff set up this morning on the main thing. + +Samuel Walker: Work meeting that had to do. So I guess based on that, are there developer guidelines related to your method of documenting things, or just kind of add things as any kind of standards have to follow when many these PRS. + +Tyler Wright: It's a great question. Scott. I know you've been leading a lot of efforts. Is there any specific guidelines that you put in place when you're thinking about documentation that we can share with the community? + +Scott Carruthers: I want to really say that for our developer documentation at docs datacos.network, I want to really say that there's any established guidelines other than obviously, you could just look at the structuring and the layout of existing documentation. But no, I want to really say that there's any hard guidelines. So, Just it may be a process where if you submit your first PR for a documentation ad, there may be some back and forth with some suggestions on maybe based on your review of the documentation site. You might pretty much now at the first time if not, maybe there'll be some initial back and forth and then probably going forward will be even easier process. But aside from looking at the documentation examples, on our documentation side, there's really not any additional. Guidelines are schema for our documentation. + +Samuel Walker: And I said, Thank you. + +Scott Carruthers: Okay, sure. + +Tyler Wright: Again, Sam, if you have any other questions, feel free to drop them in SIG, documentation, or if you want to get more involved in writing documentation, feel free to reach out to me. I'm Tyler at Core team or I think you've been working with Andy, but I know there's a number of people in the community that can help point you in the right direction of next steps. + +00:20:00 + +Tyler Wright: Other than that, is there anything else documentation related to anybody wants to discuss at this time? + +Tyler Wright: If not, then again, we can certainly end this call early. We try to be conscious of people's times but a much appreciate everybody for joining and participating. Today we got some clear action items and again Samuel look at those PRS and then hopefully we can get more engaged with you over the next month and talk a little bit more about contributing. Damir. I know that you've talked about other ways in which it contribute. So hopefully we can get contributions on the documentation side, amongst many other things that you all do. + +Tyler Wright: If there's any other updates related to documentation as it retains to the Akash website, we'll make sure that those get dropped in the special interest group for docs So that folks, on this, call in this group, can kind of see the folks that aren't here, can kind of see the updates on what's going on with the Site. And then we can certainly go from there. I think we got someone else joining who also is from the website group as well. But again, if there's nothing else. Hey, Arthur we were about to wrap up this call. We talked about everything documentation related, including some things with the website Is there anything specifically docs related that you want to cover today before we let folks go + +Tyler Wright: Arthur. If you have anything that you want to talk about, that's where they feel free to drop it in discord and we can go from there. But again, much appreciate everyone's time today. yeah, we'll talk certainly between meetings online and please, we'll look out for some more documentation updates when Leapball is available. But again, if anybody has any desire to support documentation, feel free to continue, coming to these meetings, and make yourself known in discord, so that we can talk offline and figure out where documentation updates are needed. And again, put some Akt rewards behind it. But much. Appreciate everyone's time today. Thank you, Sam, for the context on some of the work that you've been doing over the last day or so, again, if anybody has any questions comments about anything, UX related documentation, or otherwise, feel free to continue to drop those in SIG, documentation. We can talk about those during these + +Tyler Wright: meetings every month. Hope everyone has a great day, Appreciate everyone's time. Today. We'll talk online. Thank you very much. + +Scott Carruthers: Thanks everyone. + +Meeting ended after 00:23:13 👋 + diff --git a/sig-economics/README.md b/sig-economics/README.md index 7d3a1018..2e112672 100644 --- a/sig-economics/README.md +++ b/sig-economics/README.md @@ -21,6 +21,7 @@ Meetings happen every [First Wednesday of the Month](https://calendar.google.com | #7 | Wednesday, August 2, 2023 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/007-2023-08-02.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/007-2023-08-02.md#transcript) | [Link](https://fc2diejm5vhix53dnrxh7dh2bflkuufterrrnmjb54ng4ojumtkq.arweave.net/KLQ0ESztTov3Y2xuf4z6CVaqULMkYxaxIe8abjk0ZNU) | #8 | Wednesday, September 6, 2023 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/008-2023-09-06.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/008-2023-09-06.md#transcript) | [Link](https://nlzzmaec3zpmorkyh3f4w3tep2hy444funhf645cqroo7x4qtusa.arweave.net/avOWAILeXsdFWD7Ly25kfo-Oc4WjTl9zooRc79-QnSQ) | #9 | Wednesday, October 4, 2023 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/009-2023-10-04.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/009-2023-10-04.md#transcript) | [Link](https://zq6rzise7b65e5o4uq2t2dgfvdu5fjj4p2aluihozhraqk7eyyca.arweave.net/zD0cokT4fdJ13KQ1PQzFqOnSpTx-gLog7sniCCvkxgQ) +| #10 | Wednesday, November 1, 2023 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/010-2023-11-01.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/sig-economics/meetings/010-2023-11-01.md#transcript) | [Link](https://6cjhlgaiutfckbasf6sqjbypkrhyjgll463t67f7aw3af5gtghea.arweave.net/8JJ1mAikyiUEEi-lBIcPVE-EmWvntz98vwW2AvTTMcg) ## Leadership diff --git a/sig-economics/meetings/010-2023-11-01.md b/sig-economics/meetings/010-2023-11-01.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9adca6b1 --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-economics/meetings/010-2023-11-01.md @@ -0,0 +1,392 @@ +--- +title: "Economics SIG Meeting #10" +key: "sig-economics-meeting-10" +date: 2023-11-01T18:00:00Z +contributors: + + +- Bilal Khan +- Cheng Wang +- Deval Patel +- George Pro +- Halil Kerimoglu +- Kelvin Rodriguez +- Max +- Mousum XXX +- Pyakhurel Pasas +- Robert Del Rey +- Robert Koschig +- Rodrigo Rochin +- Scott Hewitson +- SGC | DCnorse +- Tyler Wright +- Zach Horn +- Zach Ross + + +--- + +# Akash Network - Economics Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #10 + +## Agenda + +* Updates since last monthly sig-economics meeting. +* Open up to community for ideas or concerns + +## Meeting Details + +- Date: Wednesday, November 1, 2023 +- Time: 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://6cjhlgaiutfckbasf6sqjbypkrhyjgll463t67f7aw3af5gtghea.arweave.net/8JJ1mAikyiUEEi-lBIcPVE-EmWvntz98vwW2AvTTMcg) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants + +- Bilal Khan +- Cheng Wang +- Deval Patel +- George Pro +- Halil Kerimoglu +- Kelvin Rodriguez +- Max +- Mousum XXX +- Pyakhurel Pasas +- Robert Del Rey +- Robert Koschig +- Rodrigo Rochin +- Scott Hewitson +- SGC | DCnorse +- Tyler Wright +- Zach Horn +- Zach Ross + +## Notes + +**Introduction and Updates** +- Scott Hewitson initiated the meeting, gave a recap of meeting #9 and any outstanding items in discussions or on-chain related to sig-economics. + +**Discussion on Provider Incentives** +- The initial phase of the incentive model may be manual and target a select number of providers for ease of monitoring and to prevent exploitation of the reward system. +- A performance-based reward system is being considered, with uptime being on of the metrics for evaluation. +- The challenges of purely algorithmic reward distribution are acknowledged, with a human oversight component deemed a solution to manage any unforeseen issues. +- The need for a robust monitoring system for uptime is discussed, including the potential use of automated agents deployed on providers' systems. +- The importance of flexibility in the uptime measurements is raised, suggesting rewards could be adjusted based on the scheduled availability of providers to accommodate various use cases. +- The discussion emphasizes the need for a consistent and accurate measurement of uptime across tools to ensure fairness in the incentive model. + +**Community Questions** +- **Question 1**: Max asked about the difficulty of using IBC denominations of USDC and if there were any solutions or discussions of native USDC. + - **Answer**: Cheng stated improving UX in the current state is probablt not advised, once we know more about the techincal implications of native USDC it will be dissemenated to the community. +- **Question 2**: Robert Koschig asked if the provider incentives framework has been created or what stage it is at. + - **Answer**: Cheng responded by saying it is still in a draft form and will post those details in sig-economics on discord. He'd like to seek some feedback or suggestions from the community. + +**Closing Remarks** +- Scott asked for any final thoughts and promoted Discord as a platform for continued discussions. + + +### Action Items + +- Cheng will consolidate the current ideation for provider incentives and post in discord for feedback. +- All are welcome to contribute! Anyone who wants to contribute please visit sig-economics in the [Discord Server](https://discord.gg/akash) + +## Transcript + +This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created. + +Scott Hewitson: All right, everybody today is the 10th. Sig economics meeting it's a little Milestone here. + +Scott Hewitson: So for today, we'll go through some of the things we talked about lasts meeting and then go through any discussions and Discord and then I'll pass it over to chain. It's given any major update and then we can open it up per usual. So last time we kind of talked there are some questions about the idps and community pools and we kind of said that the community pool is acting as all for now. So as IDP gets further ironed out and there's some engineering bandwidth to complete it. That's when there's no real time as of right now, but it's on the horizon. Talked a little bit about bounties formalizing that a little better Tyler and I have been working. + +Scott Hewitson: On making that a better program that's coming from the community support proposal five grand a month. Andrew had a question about tracking the community pool funds for a stable payments because there is some usdc in there. It's 45 cents worth. So I'm gonna drop a query that anybody can Use to check the amounts in the community pool. Actually did it earlier and I was looking at this so if you put it in your browser, it'll show you that's akt amounts and anything IVC. It should be usdc but if you didn't know IBC tokens are non-fungeable. So depending on the route that they come they will have different. + +Scott Hewitson: IBC numbers, I don't know what they call it IVC token order. So there's that. + +Scott Hewitson: ' Let's go through the Discord. We had folks Brought up some discussion about using usk it's a kujira's stable coin. So there's a little bit of discussion in there. I know Andrew asked if If he's here welcome to talk about it. If not, anyone can straight talk about it. Let's see. What else is in here? I know Piper Dev brought up. Some usdc gas payment feature. There's some discussions about that. So if you're on the call, you want to talk about that at all or have any thoughts on that? + +Scott Hewitson: And then yeah, I think that's it from the recap and last meeting and then talking about any updates since I know in steering committee right after this, they're probably gonna bring up the proposal that's live right now. And that was a lending pool for nitron. So we don't have to touch about that. at the moment. But if anyone feels strongly we can talk about it here as well. Yeah, that's about the recap and Cheng. I'm gonna pass it over to you. if you want to give any major updates and we'll go from there. + +Cheng Wang: Appreciate it amazing update and summary There's not too much to move on my end. Excuse me. I'm still getting over a little bit of a cold. I'm like 99% just have this lingering cough. So, excuse me, if I do cough. + +Cheng Wang: Close to the mic and blow your drums out. The big thing really is going to be that I'm looking forward to that is still under development in various stages just simply because it's just distractions and things and I'm not this old person working on it. I think I internally myself Greg where I'd eating around the provider incentives program right that we talked about before and one of the reasons for increasing the community pool tax is to get the pool ready to fund these types of efforts and one of the reasons why it's taking long is because just kind of peel back the curtains and breaking the fourth wall a little bit if you will is the complications around what + +Cheng Wang: in order to launch the incentive program. We definitely want to do it. but at the same time we don't know what is exactly right without actually going out there and testing it a little bit right? So there's some internal debate around what size we should calibrate it at how Loosely we should formatted or how tight we should button it up and it's really just around those particular parameters and what is the length of time? So for example instead of Designing a super? + +00:05:00 + +Cheng Wang: There's some thought hey should we just design something very programmatic get it deployed and have it run programmatically so that there's very little manual intervention that needs to happen. The challenge to that is you need a sink a lot of design effort and potentially engineering time into getting something like that across and there's a high likelihood of that not being the correct design simply because you don't know how the market and how people will react in the wild when things are actually implemented right kind of Mike Tyson at the same. Everyone's gotta got a plan until you get punch them out and better punch than the market reminding you what's right or wrong. + +Cheng Wang: So my thought is to get something done. That's lightweight. Let's say small amount, in the tens of thousands or when the low hundreds or something like that and instead of eyes the models that we know we want in some small quantity over a set period time. Let's say three months six months nine months, whatever the case may be right? Maybe not nine months so that's a three to six month and see how that pans out. Right with the participation rate is what people say what the feedback is all that kind of stuff and just kind of pull the trigger and do something really lightweight and get the thing going. So that's currently what we're internally hashing out. I do expect this to be hash out in the next couple. + +Cheng Wang: Weeks so that we will have something to the submit for discussion and GitHub. Of course Nothing's Gonna Be I couldn't just happened, right? So we'll submit something like that and next and in the coming weeks is my hope and engage you all as well as others who aren't on this call, but hopefully we'll be reading or listening to this at some point in time for feedback. + +Cheng Wang: So that's really the big thing provider incentives getting that I think nailed down is gonna be pretty big because I think that's one of the things we're currently missing to really ensure provider stability as demand continues to be bootstrapped. Right and there's some additional incent non-sensitive, excuse me initiatives that are coming online very very quickly you guys all like the thumper foundational model training initiative that was passed some time ago right in proposals and work on that is going to hit the ground running very soon. There's some Alpha there and as soon as those things start running we'll make the announcement and of course as those things continue to progress we will track those and make announcements and share progress as we have tangible things to share. And so yeah, look forward to that definitely keep your eyes peeled and years perked for that effort. Other than that, I don't really have + +Cheng Wang: too much else in specifics to share + +Scott Hewitson: awesome Thanks for that update Cheng, going along with that, Cheng said we're trying to figure out the best way to go about provider incentives, having more minds thinking about it in my opinion is better than less mine. So if anyone has any ideas, please drop it in the cig economics or if you got something you want to show we can spin up a working group or something but really, the idea if we go high level right it's to get percent or to get providers on the network and stay on the network when demand might not be there completely. we demands kind of been + +Scott Hewitson: It's a metric that I'm looking at all the time. And when you have varying levels of demand, providers will spin down but we really want them to stay there so that when demand comes we're ready to go and it's stable. So yeah, feel free drop in Deval what's going on? + +Deval Patel: Hey, so I got a message from Discord user called Joseph. He's looking for some kind of for demo if we can give him he has some Enterprise users who wants to use the GPU and CPU for the AI purposes and they want to like a demo to Showcase where we can run the better workflow on So if we can fasculate I'm happy to facility meeting in between Akash and him right and if you can showcase him that what kind of use case we can provide through Akash for the cheap purpose He'll be happy to run a few workloads formed Enterprise. + +00:10:00 + +Scott Hewitson: That's awesome. If you could throw all that info into a Discord and cig economics, I can follow up with you me are tired even chain can follow up and yeah, I know that'd be great. + +Scott Hewitson: Thank you. + +Scott Hewitson: Let's see. So that's kind of. What I had at the moment. Does anyone want to talk about anything in between since last meeting or anything you want to bring up any ideas really? It's an open floor. Everyone here is pretty open to good ideas. or any ideas really, yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: I know I Andrew's got a question for me somewhere. If she's on no, he's not on it. Hi, what's up? + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, I know we might talk a little bit about it later. And you talked about the proposal that's currently on right now. because we have a certain amount of time and Searing committee again, we might talk about with the later, but I would love to hear I know that Huey you do a great job of responding to these discussion throws a number of people that see the potential and what a cautious today and are obviously trying to figure out ways Whether it be lending pools or economics ESC initiatives, and I just want to hear do we have a hard stance that we want to here? I know that's on the case by case basis you're respond to these people, but I just want to hear from you and other members on the call if + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, for Yeah, so looking at the + +Scott Hewitson: Proposal right now. It's got 41% turnout. So it's reached Quorum and it's currently a no vote. I think I put my opinions. I don't know if I put in an Insider Channel or not, but really my thoughts on this they're asking it's a small amount of akt. It's like 5,000 akt and they're just using it to bootstrap lending pool. If you haven't been on nitron, I've never used it personally. I went on defy llama and looked at their stats and kind of see how much liquidity is there there under a million and liquidity across the whole protocol or whole lending protocol, you compare that to osmosis who has got 70 80 million in liquidity. So in my mind, it's like this is a smaller player. + +Scott Hewitson: they're trying to get tokens on to their platforms that people use them because the more liquidity you have the better prices you get when you trade or when you're lending you get better prices. So yeah, I mean another point I brought up was it is a small amount. and it's incentives for 90 days. So, once those 90 days are up it's like What more value is being brought to Aka I don't know and I don't know if those people keep their deposits there, I think fiber brought it up that it needs to be above the staking rewards amount for anyone to keep money there because why would you not just stake it or there's less risk and higher return? So those are kind of all the thoughts that I had around this. + +Scott Hewitson: I think I said I was 50/50 but leaning to know but then if it did pass, it's also a smaller amount smaller we do these little experiments and see what happens a little bit. So yeah, that's kind of where I was thinking Ty is that answer your question? or Cheng over to jump into + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, I go everything you said Scott. I'm in line with you completely there. I just want to add a little bit more context like I know. Sega economics here in terms of the economics effort. this is well within our purview to talk about here. So it's perfect to bring these up and in terms of where our focus and effort needs to be to really drive the Network adoption. coming from another perspective like what is our ultimate goal here at a koschi? + +00:15:00 + +Cheng Wang: Nothing right vaporware or other kind of POS economics stuff that we're all very familiar with not that those things don't have their time and place they do right exchanges taxes Etc. They all have their place and needless to save bootstrapping those things aren't easy. So, my heart goes out to I totally understand the condition that there were in it's kind of cold sore problem we have to deal with it ourselves, right and in supply and demand you need incentives for example provider incentives to help get providers on and ensure providers stability so that we can ensure that demand can come in and see hey you go into a store and you go into a supermarket and you're buying plantains, for example, you don't want the store to be empty of plantains. You want them to be on the shelves, And so those are things that we are very aware of in this kind of suicide of marketplace problem or just bootstrapping anything. + +Cheng Wang: However, at this point in time really mainstream adoption is the key right for us and focusing all of our efforts and funds towards that maybe not all but the vast majority of our time and energy on that I think is the right approach here and it's the right Focus right? Because what ultimately is going to make I mean, what is for example people in Cosmos or outside of Cosmos room critique, let's say the cosmos Hub right what utility are they providing? what is Adam 2.0 all this kind of + +Cheng Wang: Often the feedback under critique. There's nothing like super tangible, right and for a caution Network, we're doing something incredibly tangible and as hard as hell but it's finally really gaining traction now and we have incredible stuff in the pipeline coming down where our did the internally I think what I like to say is we need to demonstrate. I mean for all of us here, we probably know in one way shape or form, right but we need to show the public time and time and time again. Anything the traditional Cloud can do a cost can do. + +Cheng Wang: We believe that we know it's possible. Right and we're marching towards that every single day. We're working on this project, but it's about demonstrating that as much as we possibly can and continuing to show the public what we're capable of so, I think the Sega economics as well as all economics efforts currently should be in support of one person's opinion should be vast majority in support of that particular effort to drive adoption more so than anything else + +Scott Hewitson: I think that was greatly said I just add one last little bit to that. So I taking his whole thing and add it and Distilling it to one sentence. I think the community pool should be used only for organic Network if things that will drive organic Network spend and lending pools trading like it's kind of secondary. so thanks for all that thanks for all that Cheng and Ty for the question. + +Scott Hewitson: Does anyone else have anything they want to bring up any questions floor is open for anything? Really? + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, Max what's going on? + +Max: Hey guys. Yeah, like you said I just had a question about the usdc on the cash and I know you spoke a little bit Scott in the beginning that depending on the channel that you use for IPC transfers you get a different IBC denim. + +Max: I wanted to know what's the plan to? address this issue and I remember hearing about maybe native usdc on a cash and stuff like this. So yeah, what are your thoughts about the usage of USBC and also for providers the incentives to use usdc or I think there's an incentive to use akit instead of usdc. Maybe around but yeah, that's about this. + +00:20:00 + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, I would say yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: changed you want to + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. Sorry, I would say in terms I'll address the incentive thing first because that's the easiest thing to address for using it was in the design of I think when you're saying the incentive to use akto or usdc you're kind of indirectly referring to the take rate, right? Because the take rate is so much higher on usdc than akt there's an incentive to use the native token for payment processing. And I think that is definitely the case especially early on right where folks are trying to especially now with + +Cheng Wang: The price action being what it is and kind of the momentum there. I think people are viewing more of a hold on akt, right then sell on AKC. So in that regard people are saying hey, what, I would like to risk optimize for more akt if I'm a provider and also I get to keep more of it because the take rate is so much lower. So there's definitely that and that was intentional in the design. I think we talked about it too right where we want to ensure that native token always has the kind of the leg up if you will in that regard usdc and other tokens are associated will always Prefer, obviously, these parameters are all changeable via governance, right and that's the whole idea of it. But I mean the original intention was to prefer higher take rates for other tokens because again it doesn't + +Cheng Wang: Because it doesn't use akt directly and we want to ensure that the value capture as well as the value creation to akt is never broken and that chain remains strong to ensure it's Implement rather a higher take rate for these other currencies and that take room goes back to the community pool. Right? We're currently in the community pool in the future some IDP sub pool, whatever it is, that adds value continues to fund the development of a caution Network, So again, I know this already Max of course, but that's just the loop right and that's the reason why that exists going forward using us DC natively, I think I don't know what the exact. technical + +Cheng Wang: constraints are precisely to make that happen what we do know for example in arguments at least whom we're close to is kava has already done native usdt via kava. So we're trying to get scheduled time with their engineering team and our engineering team to talk and understand. + +Cheng Wang: What it requires and what that kind of looks like because supporting to just understand what the technical guts are necessary to support native usdt and Native usdc right the end result. I don't know the technical bits are but the max you're so that me probably definitely but in terms of the end result, it'll be as if you're using Akash or atom or anything else it'll just be another token within Cosmos and it'll be fungible there wouldn't be usdc via osmosis on Akash, It's like and then that is only in order to get back to you as DC. You have to take it you see on Akash send it back to osmosis. + +Cheng Wang: Use the apps of bridge back to usdc in order to get usable usdc on exchanges right or something like that or to put back into your own wallet somewhere or something like that. So, we're trying to understand what the technical implications and requirements are to support your CT natively on Akash, that's step one. And that should be happening with the next week or two that conversation the very least and then from there we'll be able to better Define what are the next steps as far as building support for it? And on either right? I'm pretty sure these are core implementation, And so that's where we currently are. So once we kind of bridge that Goldberg That we're currently in this initial really rough implementation of uscc. It'll be a lot easier and things will be fungible. I think I'm pretty sure 99% sure. + +Cheng Wang: half the time + +Max: Yeah that makes sense and perfectly answers my question and I guess follow-up question. do you think it's worth putting effort right now to improve the ux to use usdc from osmosis or not worth it, since it's not very good ux in terms of IBC and non-fundibility of + +00:25:00 + +Cheng Wang: I would if I were betting man, which I sometimes am. I would say probably not worthwhile improving the ux around this current IBC denom shenanigans. I would probably in order to make a more. Well informed decision I think will have the conversation with coffee scene is AP. Like I said next week or two once we have that conversation. I think we'll be able to judge a little bit more. With the greater degree of certainty and understanding what the right path forward is for, staple coin Not true, but direct stable coin support rather than just whole hopping around thing. Yeah. + +Max: Sounds good. Yeah, I think I agree with your bet I mean if the conversation and all the details are to be talked about next week or soon enough. definitely not worth trying to + +Max: make the IVC then stuff in the department experience easier since it might be absolutely in a few weeks. So yeah, All right. Thanks. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, absolutely or just a cleaner implementation right instead of designing around something that is suboptimal to just have a cleaner flow in designing around that I think closer to where the end State ultimately should be right. + +Max: Yeah, for sure because right now you need to know the exact denim to put in the sdl for providers to bid on it, but even us as developers, we had a hard time figuring that out. So can't imagine for anyone else. + +Scott Hewitson: Ross normal Focus impossible + +Max: That's exactly… + +Scott Hewitson: just Okay. + +Max: what I meant. + +Scott Hewitson: I'm just playing. + +Scott Hewitson: No, that was a great question. And thanks for the thorough response string would appreciate that. Yeah, Robert what's going on? Good to see you here. you got. + +Scott Hewitson: maybe he'll jump back on. Or maybe he was trying to leave and not raise his hand. there we go. + +Scott Hewitson: Hey Robert. Were you trying to ask a question? + +Robert Koschig: Yeah. He's basically to check in back on the topic of provider and this in ideation. is there already something or you really start basically from zero? + +Cheng Wang: There are some initial thoughts Robert circulating around and like I said, we'll definitely share a collated higher conviction version of our thoughts summarize and GitHub discussions before anything goes live so door. everyone will have a crack at it. before these things go live in terms of will obviously we want to Share something that is cohesive something that is well thought out and has a reasoning explained behind it. So that when we get into the discussions, right people can really pull that apart and there's not a lack of detail. That's the reason why it's like taking a little while because there's debates of how should you do this, but I think we're coming together on a closer understanding at this point. It's just about nailing down things like + +Cheng Wang: The specific GPU models, we should incentivize in this first batch because what we want to keep in mind is this is going to be the first iteration. It's not like the end all be all. So if there's a particular model not supported that doesn't mean it won't be supported later on. You know what I mean? It's just hey, there's this one thing we want to do. Let's start and do something small but quick and so then get some learnings from it and the second iteration will be better in the third fourth Etc. So on and of course not build something over engineer something where we back ourselves into a corner and spend so much time on it and effort that it ends up having to be being changed, dramatically or completely. So yeah that's where we are and we'll get out I'll put gas on that and get that shared publicly as soon as we can I'm hoping in the next week or two is guess. But yeah, just that would be the goal. So that at least the next say economics? + +Robert Koschig: Okay. + +Cheng Wang: We can have something tangible up there that will have already been subject to some amount of public discussion that we can continue to hash out here if anything. Yeah. + +00:30:00 + +Robert Koschig: That was basically like… + +Cheng Wang: please I'll see economics. + +Robert Koschig: we can start here if we want because what comes to mind when we talk about,… + +Cheng Wang: For sure. Yeah. + +Robert Koschig: incentivizing up time one model that I like a lot is Hopper. Does it live clear? Does it the probabilistic payments? And not true if you know it, but it's basically, you don't get a reward like every block or whatever but it's like a likelihood that you get it and obviously you can say If you have a certain type of GPU that we need more than the other, you're likely to this higher and you need to collect not just one, lottery this week winning ticket but five and that's over time. So it's on average if you're up all the time because you randomly send out the tickets right to and if your life you can collect it. + +Robert Koschig: And that's why you have an incentive to be alive because if you missed it because you're not up and running and you're not gonna get it and obviously the downside of all this is This is a little bit complicated to implement. I mean, you can tell that I'm not a deaf so I can only make up a fancy incentive models. But yeah, that's one component for sure that comes to mind that that feels like one idea to kind of go after the uptime incentivization besides the other constraint. Obviously that when there is demand you kind of want to slow down the absolute bucket of + +Robert Koschig: This It's just inverse to when there's actually demanded you would just cap it or even shrink it down. So you only have a Baseline and whenever there's no demand people still get this minimum in incentives and if there's demand and this Baseline emission is zero, basically + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, I think this is Definitely closer to there are some elements of that are very in line with what we're thinking as well. So hypothetically I'm a provider that I have, 10 gpus whatever the case may be in those gpus are models that the network wants to incentivize because they're important to adoption and keeping the supply on so hypothetically when those resources come on, we'll say The idea the incentives is to create a floor right? I think that's where you're talking about here where if you're earning more than the floor you don't get incent you shouldn't also double dip incentives probably right or if you do it should be something smaller. And so the idea of incentives here is to ensure that providers aren't losing money. + +Cheng Wang: Per se by operating on a cost Network so that they can continue to sustain those operations. Whatever they're kind of like break even costs are and of course everyone's a little bit different but the way we can't calibrate it to each person's like economics situation, Every providers economics situation might differ a little bit. So we'll have to use some sort of generalistic approach to parameterize it and so yeah, I think setting a floor is a huge component of this and then anything beyond the floor is going to be just + +Cheng Wang: Gravy, I think that the provider keeps and not incentivizing anything beyond that I think there's some thoughts around it as well. do we just say instead of eyes the floor? Let's say your floor is a thousand a month right in emissions and you get the Thousand no matter what and the excess you keep is or is it if you make up to a thousand in actual deployments, then you don't get the rewards at all or some small amount, So there's some gradients there between those approaches and then the other thing is definitely in the initial implementation won't be by block period because that requires programming right and Engineering effort, so I think it'll largely be limited to some small amount. Let's say 10, 20 or 30 providers, whatever maybe or chip types maybe like 10 two or three four types and maybe 10 or 20 providers something like that depending on how that's + +Cheng Wang: Framed and the economics will have to match. Those things in order for people to come online use it Is it enough incentive? So those are kind of things because what we don't want to do is overpay, it's okay A little bit especially if it's small scale, but we want to hit that sweet spot right where incentivizes people enough to join and keep on but it's not so much where people are just going to necessarily arbit right to say, what I'm getting five grand a month for these machines that I can go out and lease on some Cloud for 200 a month. Yeah. Okay, of course, I'm gonna do that, we all want to create too much of that scenario either. + +Robert Koschig: yeah, I mean that makes it almost sense and I really like also the kind of cost markup a floor anchor so to speak that's Yeah,… + +00:35:00 + +Cheng Wang: anchor here + +Robert Koschig: really good. Obviously and if you then even tie it to a limited amount of providers because then you kind of avoid the issue of if a cash token all of a sudden goes up and you don't adjust, all of a sudden you have 500 people coming in just for the farming so to speak. Yeah, that's for the things you want to avoid. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah. + +Cheng Wang: Yeah, and I think the initial implementation will be pretty manual to it'll be like, hey these 10 providers that we're incentivizing we know their provider addresses, right? And so we're going to monitor those providers for uptime and we can easily keep track of it. and not necessarily give out the rewards per blog period but her X interval whatever right by weekly monthly whatever the case may be in order to and I think manually process the processing those things will be a little bit painful in the beginning but I think it'll give us a great degree of understanding and control so that we don't get into How their algorithmic runaway scenario where one of the snare is a yield Illustrated, for example. Happens yeah. + +Robert Koschig: Yeah, but for sure interesting right to think about the way how to incentivize that time because right that the probabilistic payment stuff is more like, you put the pressure on the Node operators to be like, yeah, if you're not up, it's not my fault. You need to collect the stuff whereas there are other networks right that more we measure the uptime nimm for example, does it they have a performance factor for the rewards? So you get rewarded according to how could your performances and the performance basically is uptime. So right over the past 24 hours if you were just the ping I think in arbitrary interval and if you've been up only 80% of the time, you get pen penalized on the rewards that you would actually get if you up fully 100% So it sounds like in the beginning to keep it simple. You're more like using this type of measurement where you will just look at the actual data window when they were up. + +Robert Koschig: Is that something you could actually do also a lot larger scale more permissionless to kind of measure up time. I mean also I don't want to steer too many, spot here. I just like the discussion. So if anybody else has other questions for sure stop us. + +Cheng Wang: No worries I think you had something to go, but he had a Henry's. + +Cheng Wang: You're 100% right? Yeah, that's a great idea great point and I think in between right? So I'll collate the existing thoughts and share them in say economics so we can get the discussion rolling totally agree. I think it's a great idea and I'll do that sometimes today for Love it. Yeah,. + +Cheng Wang: Exactly public accountability. I'm gonna do it today 50% Just Let's see. What else I think wherever you asked a question previously. around Yeah,… + +Scott Hewitson: No, I was just as we're talking about this Robert really appreciate you coming in. + +Cheng Wang: I think is there a programmatic way to monitor uptime in those things like that? + +Scott Hewitson: You've been in the past two and… + +Cheng Wang: So I think A Deval was on the word,… + +Scott Hewitson: you always have good things to say. So I really appreciate that. I was gonna ask you Cheng do we have something that we can throw into cigar economics and… + +Cheng Wang: but I think he dropped but yeah as far as praeter and stuff like that that would probably lean on their Tech to monitor this stuff. + +Scott Hewitson: Discord just maybe a rough bullets of… + +Cheng Wang: I probably believe there's that kind of capability and… + +Scott Hewitson: what we're thinking, kind of how we've been going right? + +Cheng Wang: in addition to that once we know their Address right on the provider address we can easily monitor via prater's dashboard. + +Scott Hewitson: Some internal folks right some stuff and then it goes on discussions and it's all right, that's kind of the 90 percent product and then any final tweet … + +Cheng Wang: I don't know… + +Scott Hewitson: I think there's interest and… + +Cheng Wang: how far back that information goes… + +Scott Hewitson: some smart people out there that can help steer some of these things. + +Cheng Wang: because they do show you up time. I don't know if it's a two week period or whatever it is,… + +Scott Hewitson: So if we … + +Cheng Wang: but what we could do is whatever that + +Scott Hewitson: put out a 30 or 40 percent, some bullet points of this is… + +Cheng Wang: Time period is let's say it's a seven day. + +00:40:00 + +Scott Hewitson: what we're thinking get some inputs. + +Cheng Wang: I'm just throwing out a number… + +Scott Hewitson: You never know when … + +Cheng Wang: if it's a 70 period we can do rewards every seven day period right just say hey you had 20% uptime you get nothing… + +Scott Hewitson: great ideas come out and get implemented into that final or not the final but next step of discussions or… + +Cheng Wang: because you suck or you have 90% Plus or… + +Scott Hewitson: it's kind of like, all right,… + +Cheng Wang: 99% plus up time you're grades. + +Scott Hewitson: we've already made up our mind almost + +Cheng Wang: That's what we want. Then you get it and we can do some sort of thing. That's a great idea too late some sort of gradient where beneath a certain amount of uptime you don't get any rewards and some Take a percentage that you are up you get additional rewards right to incentivize greater uptime too. I think is reliability and providers. That's… + +Scott Hewitson: awesome And… + +Cheng Wang: what that does right you want someone who's like having it on all the time not On and… + +Scott Hewitson: he doesn't do it today everyone hit him up on Discord. + +Cheng Wang: off on and off. Okay. + +Tyler Wright: There's a case where maybe somebody has a100s that they need to use during the day, but then they want to make them available on a cost Network for 10 hours and they know that 10 hours is every single night of specific time and it's scheduled. We want to make sure that they're not being penalized for something. that we would want to encourage theoretically on the marketplace. I think there's other elements of the uptime metric as it is stand today that could use some tinkering but I think that as you all think about incentives up time is certainly very important, but I think it's just one piece of the provider puzzle, obviously GPU type is another piece that you all know about but I think it's just a piece of that puzzle and determining that Precision determine for incentives. + +Cheng Wang: Only with you. good point + +Max: Yeah, Thanks for bringing that up and I was aware that there was this good discussion in the signal it takes about this. But for Maybe one solution to this is that providers could specify the schedule that they want to be online and we could base Based ourselves on this to calculate the uptime. That way if it's scheduled to be online for just a few hours during the day. We can check that and also we've done some work. instead because currently the way we check the updine is just by fetching or pinging the status endpoints from providers. + +Max: And sometimes that isn't very reliable for some reason some providers are actually online, but their status endpoint they're making some changes on their DNS config in the status point isn't online, but their provider is online and they work running. and so yeah, we made some work to work towards deploying and agent on each of the providers automatically So there would be at least one deployment on all of the providers. that runs the agent and gives us the actual API endpoints that we would query on that. + +Scott Hewitson: Max good + +Max: specific deployment and we can also do some benchmarking and + +Max: other types of metrics to gather more data about the providers Which there could be used also for the incentives? Maybe just thinking about this right now. But yeah. + +Max: Maybe we can talk about it in a separate color something. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, yeah, if you want to come to Sig analytics, maybe we can create a separate call where you pray towards some other folks get together because to your point Max at first use case. I was talking about where people are trying to Compute online for specific schedule period of time it's like a newer thing that is being explored. But the way that uptime the second point that you're making about how up time metric is taking right now is something that I think is worthy of further discussion amongst the team so we can make sure it's the same across all tools and makes sense for everybody. + +Tyler Wright: So I'll set up some time for us to talk about that whether it's next week and Sig analytics or prior to that. + +00:45:00 + +Max: Sounds good. + +Scott Hewitson: awesome Does anyone else have anything else that they'd like to bring up to the group? We've got about 11 minutes left of the scheduled time before steering committee. + +Cheng Wang: Please do definitely considering Community if you guys have the time. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah for Already, it looks like we don't have anything else. So action items anyone who has ideas wants to contribute to The molding or developing of the provider incentives, Please drop it into Sig economics and Discord and Cheng is also going to drop kind of what the internal teams thinking about at the moment very rough. Nothing set in stone. So Yeah,… + +Cheng Wang: Don't judge me. + +Scott Hewitson: that's the big action item this one. With that, I think we can conclude today's session and as always appreciate everybody and we'll see you here shortly. + +Cheng Wang: Thank everyone for coming and participating. + +Robert Del Rey: Stay safe guys. Thanks. + +Robert Koschig: Thanks. + +Cheng Wang: As well. Bye. + +Meeting ended after 00:46:20 + diff --git a/sig-providers/meetings/010-2023-10-25.md b/sig-providers/meetings/010-2023-10-25.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..63e11c40 --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-providers/meetings/010-2023-10-25.md @@ -0,0 +1,375 @@ + # Akash Network - Providers Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #10 + +## Agenda +- Presentation on Auditing providers tool +- Discussions on Content Moderation. +- Follow up discussion on GPU Provider Setup. +- Update from Praetor on all of the work that they have been doing. +- Open Discussion on all things related to Akash Providers. + +## Meeting Details +- Date: Wednesday, October 25th, 2023 +- Time: 08:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://2aefpzwgiwj6jzkl5fdsn7us3pjprpnpkoqqrrsu6bjaukktnxya.arweave.net/0AhX5sZFk-TlS-lHJv6S29L4va9ToQjGVPBSCilTbfA) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants +- Andrey Arapov +- Benjamin B +- Byan +- Cheng Wang +- Damir Simpovic +- Deval Patel +- Julius Haus +- Rodrigo Rochin +- Samuel Walker +- Scott Carruthers +- Tyler Wright +- Zach Ross + +## Meeting Notes +- Tyler mentioned the community pool grant awarded to the Praetor team for their work on tools for aspiring providers. +- Tyler Acknowledged the progress made by the Praetor team, including basic functionality and work on content moderation and API improvements. + +### Benjamin's Presentation on Auditing Providers +- Benjamin described a proof of concept created for automatically tracking and benchmarking providers. +- Their goal is to create an auditor tool that assesses providers on different levels based on factors like uptime and reliability. +- Benjamin suggested a tiered signing approach, where providers meeting certain criteria would receive different ratings. +- Mentioned the collection of historic data and its relationship with the concept. +- Benjamin discussed the hosting of most services on Akash and noted that the database could also be run on Akash. +- Tyler Wright encouraged participants to [view the YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg90U1£82uU) video shared in the chat and provide feedback in the "providers" channel on discord. + +### Demo from Praetor(Content Moderation Solution) +- Deval began to present the content moderation solutions, starting with wallet address blocking and demonstrated the use of a modified Provider service through the deploy tool from cloudmos. +- Deval demonstrated content moderation solutions, including wallet address blocking and Image URL blocking. +- Showed how a blocked wallet address prevents deployment and mentioned the management API, which will allow providers to close leases themselves. +- Presented Image blocking, demonstrating the blocking of URLs containing specific domain names. +- Explained that successful deployment requires whitelisted wallet addresses, whitelisted images, and no use of blocked domains. +- Showed a successful deployment of a game and played the game on the provider's side. +- Mentioned plans to make the system more dynamic and allow block and disabled items to be enabled from Praetor app itself. +- Discussed the upcoming implementation of the management API and plans to release an updated version of the provider service. +- Andrey inquired about whether the provider code was modified and suggested submitting pull requests upstream. +- Deval Patel: Confirmed that they would submit pull requests once the dynamic codes and blocklist code were satisfactorily completed. +- Damir raised a question about what happens if someone clones an Image and renames it, suggesting that the image might still run. +- Andrey shared an experience of trying to run a miner and having the process killed, indicating that some systems can be employed to detect and address such issues. +- Deval explained that the management API would allow providers to inspect the content of images and potentially close them. +- Zach mentioned that the Chaperone service can block specific processes or look for specific file types. [Shared a link](https://github.com/cryptoandcoffee/akashos/blob/main/chaperone.py) related to this. +- Tyler mentioned that there is an issue in the Akash project roadmap related to content moderation. +- Tyler encouraged Deval to update that issue with the details mentioned during the meeting. +### Other Matters Discuused +- Andrey advised participants to follow announcements from the provider announcement channel in Discord. +- Andrey encouraged providers to report issues in the "providers" channel or directly to him. +- Tyler Mentioned the "support" special interest group that addresses open support tickets related to the core product. +- Tyler discussed issue [number 137](https://github.com/akash-network/support/issues/137), indicating it might be a known issue, and mentioned potential tooling to address it. Offered to discuss the matter further with Samuel after the meeting. +#### - Discussion on Security and Container User Privileges +- Zach discussed pod security standards and the fact that Akash deployments run containers as the root user, which raised security concerns. +- Zach Inquired about the possibility of creating a separate Akash user for container deployments. +- Andrey responded that blocking the root user for user deployments and specifying a non-root user in Docker images would require deeper consideration and a feature request. +- Andrey mentioned remapping user IDs as another option. Suggested starting a discussion in the Akash repository. +- Tyler suggested that Zach drop a discussion on the topic of user permissions and default user settings in the Akash Repository. Mentioned the upcoming steering committee meeting where this could be discussed further. +- Zach Expressed willingness to join the steering committee meeting tomorrow and contribute to the discussion. +- Samuel Shared his experience with [Kyverno](https://kyverno.io/) and Open Policy Agent in the context of enforcing security policies in Kubernetes clusters. +- Smauel mentioned that Kyverno can be used to prevent deployments that don't meet specific security criteria. +#### - Discussion on Notifying Users About Rejected Images +- Samuel asked about the process for notifying users in advance about rejected images due to security policies. +- Andrey suggested that this topic deserves further discussion and mentioned leveraging provider attributes to notify users about rejected images. +- Benjamin mentioned that it's not possible to send information back to users whose deployments were rejected +- Benjamin suggested a solution of saving and encrypting logs in a way that only the tenants can decrypt. +- Deval explained that the error messages are given during deployment, but the problem may arise when users don't check the logs or ignore the pop-up messages +- Deval Discussed the need to also handle deployment history and rejections on the client side. Proposed discussing this with the client team to find a suitable solution. +## Action Items: +- Zach Ross will create a discussion in the Akash Repository about user permissions and default user settings. +- Group to explore methods for providing users with better feedback when their deployments are rejected. +- Group will continue to monitor the content moderation work over the next month. +- Ben and His brother will share market research and open up discussion on audit tools. +- Deval to update Content modeartion Roadmap on Github +- Chaperone tool will continue to be worked on by Andrew Mello. + +## **Transcript** + +_This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created._ + +Tyler Wright: All right, welcome everybody to provide a special interest group monthly meeting number 10. During these monthly meetings. We discuss all things related to the provider on the Akash Network. We usually get a large participation of folks that are supporting providers and Beyond so much appreciate this group. I know there's also been some community pool. That has been granted to the pretor team for a lot of work that they've been doing over years of again building quick and easy tooling for those are trying to become providers on the Akash Network. So we monitor the work that they've been doing in the progress that they have whether it be related to basic pray to our functionality or specifically some work that's been coming out of the working group for the content moderation and some of the API work that they've been doing. + +Tyler Wright: I know that Benjamin's also here and talked about a topic that he wanted to bring up related to auditing providers. And so I do want to give him some time to talk and give a presentation if If there's anybody else that has any specific action items or talking points that they want to bring up feel free to do so. Go ahead Deval. + +Deval Patel: Yeah, so I'm getting ready for the partial demo of the things what we are building right? Meanwhile if somebody can go ahead and do something. I mean give the demo benjaminers here off whatever he wants to show for next five ten minutes, That could be nice right? Meanwhile, I can prepare the provider to I'll show you guys something, okay? + +Tyler Wright: I appreciate that. And I just want to shout out. I don't know how public this information is, but I believe developed a new father. So congratulations on that. I know it's been a hectic time for you over the past couple of weeks. + +Deval Patel: Yeah, thank you. + +Tyler Wright: Congratulations. + +Tyler Wright: excellent Andrey I know that you've been working with a number of folks in the community and again we've gotten some updates recently from Andrew Mello. I was hoping that he'd be able to attend this meeting because again, he's been working on some cooling that we talked about at a high level at the last thing providers monthly meeting related to chaperone tools and some automated content moderation tools that he's been building but Ben are you able to kind of discuss what you've been thinking about and working with and get some feedback from The Specialist Group or do you need some more time as well? And then we can talk about some other topics in the meantime. + +Benjamin B: Yeah, I could take my account. + +Tyler Wright: Okay, Yeah, so I'll hand it over to you and you can walk us through what you've been thinking about. + +Benjamin B: also + +Benjamin B: Can you see my screen now on Discord? + +Benjamin B: awesome I don't have much of a presentation really and… + +Tyler Wright: Yes, yes. + +Benjamin B: I don't really have that much to discuss. I'm hoping that people will come with feedback or questions. But basically me and my brother we created a small. proof of Concepts we created an idea for how a track providers Automatically we could track their online. we could train that we could Benchmark them. And we could save the historic data to using other systems. + +Benjamin B: And our hopes for this product were to create an auditor that automatically all the time on the different levels. So let's say how the Other deployment in mind you don't really care about uptime being close to 100% but you still want it to be on a somewhat reliable provider. So what we could do here we could have. + +Benjamin B: this related to this we could have something like if a provider has been online more than 90% We can sign them with one address if they have been online. 95% we could sign them with another address and every piece of data we can collect we can create. One address where we sign them for that and then you could create really flexible filtering. We would also want to eventually collect and create some historic data, so if you wanted to see How old is this provided really? This goes hand in hand with start page, by the way. Basically if you have the data in your hands or if you can access the tools. to access that data + +00:05:00 + +Benjamin B: you can make better assumptions than just trusting in auditor. Blindly, this older has signs this provider. Of course, I will trust them because I trust all that. This is not really that. and these ones are used ideas for now we Haven't even considered those that much I want to also share this video. I will share with me shout as well. I go in explaining how it works a bit more. where it is used and how + +Benjamin B: Which you can watch later the project is not active now, but if we get enough feedback if we get enough. Discussion around it and interest maybe we will restart it again. We initially created it for the hackathon. But we were very disappointed seeing there was one project created over a year ago and somehow it won the hackathon. + +Benjamin B: Was anyone have any questions or ideas? + +Tyler Wright: Thank you Again, if anybody has any additional questions comments about what then Ben is talking about, please take a look at the YouTube video that he dropped in the chat and again, feel free to leave feedback in providers. One of the main things that we're trying to do with many of these special interest groups is trying to connect people that may have whether it be businesses or pray to our team. Will there be ideas like Benjamin, and his brother are kind of trying to figure out what's next. It would be great. + +Tyler Wright: It would be great to again get additional feedback. We also have a number of folks on this call that are running providers whether it be CPU provided to GP providers on the network of various sizes so much. Appreciate everyone on this Samuel Walker left a message Ben in the chat + +Benjamin B: Do you mean where it would be host? Because if it's that case most of the services will be holding on the coach. I believe. The only thing we did not toast in a car was the front end. As well as the database but database could. Definitely be run on a coach. + +Tyler Wright: Thank you again. we're in the process of I know that out of the last six providers meeting. There's been a great job conversation around content moderation. The pretor team has been working on some content moderation solutions that they're going to be demoing over the next couple of minutes to just finalizing some things right now while we wait does anyone else have any other provider related issues comments? I know is Andre on this call. He is not too. yes. Yes. I know that andrey's been very active with folks of various sides in the community Andre not to put you on the spot. But while we're waiting, is there anything of note that maybe you want to talk about provider-wise that might be good for folks of that are running providers and they cost Network. + +Andrey Arapov: Yeah, just make sure you follow the announcements from the provider announcement in the Discord and we'll be good. Other than that I could have any issues just is normal as usual just writing a providers Channel. Let me know directly. However you want other than that providers have been running quite smoothly a couple of providers. I mentioned another call had some issues but mostly firewall related issues the nibble of block and Andrey, but they fix this issues. And not long ago damir had some Yeshiva. I believe it's related to the other attended upgrades been enabled. This kind of thing was causing a lot of havoc. For the annuity enabled providers where a media plugging was getting stuck and was causing the entire convergence cluster. + +00:10:00 + +Andrey Arapov: You get stuck on basically I couldn't remove that new deployments and those more kind of subtle issues unless you go in and check the cluster and it's solved by basically disabling the upgrades and they're putting the provider and all but three years ago. since then that time haven't had any reports related to that and + +Tyler Wright: Perfect. Thank you Andrey. + +Tyler Wright: Samuel, I know you can't talk right now. that you brought that issue up. we actually talked about this issue. There's another number of special interest groups that happened providers is obviously one that's focused on providers on the cost Network. We do have a weekly specialist group called support where we go through all the Open tickets in the support repo, which is related to core product. We triage those issues. That's where a lot of members of the Court team come together and triage any issues. We look for members of the community to see if they can help solve any of these issues and Implement Solutions via code. But again, we talk to community about specific issues that issue number 137. That's your talk about related to the providers. I believe it's a known issue. We're trying to see and we talked about this a little bit during the court. + +Tyler Wright: That might actually be a duplicate issue, but that's something that we're looking to solve in the next couple of weeks with some potential tooling. But again, I'm going to reach out to you offline and make sure that you have access to the video from the six support meeting so you can kind of see what was talked about related to one issue 137, but we can also again talk async if you have any more questions details or in cool + +Tyler Wright: guys want to mention the ball and all the work that he and degar have done with pretor which again is a easy way for folks that are trying to set up a provider to do so be doing tool the prey to our team has worked very closely within the community group structure working within again, some of the inaugural working groups around content moderation as well as being a large contributor in sick clients and providers. So they've been again working very closely with members of the community and the core team they've been very active during test Nets, obviously as we let up to mainnetics there was a lot of work that had to get done. + +Tyler Wright: For folks to be able to deploy gpus on the Akash Network a number of folks that think over 50% of the community uses. Prey towards a tool versus the CLI to set up a provider. So again, the Preorder team is very Hands-On very communicative and really a great support in helping during that test that period and Beyond so just want to shout them out before they show all the progress that they've made on content moderation. + +Deval Patel: Thank you Yeah, so in gender content moderation, there were three things to moderate at this point of time. the wallet addresses second was images and that is A host means of where the URLs to be hosted and stuff like that, So first thing I wanted to show you guys in terms of wallet blocking, right? + +Deval Patel: Through the deploy tool cloudmos, what I have done is that we have deployed our modified version of Provider service in this left hand side what you can see These are the logs, right? And basically from the locks you can tell right what you can see basically here are particular line and I'm going to highlight this right' this wallet address is the only wallet it is allowed but found this wallet address, right so somebody tried to deploy something right, but we got created because that wallet address is blocked, And yes, as you can see here, right? I'm going to do the same thing here read apply to + +00:15:00 + +Deval Patel: Yeah, so as you can see here, these are two lines, Which matters right which is blocking the wallet address I know that the wallet address blocking is there right in + +Deval Patel: Price scripting right but we are replacing this with the allow list as Right which is going to be implemented soon as well as this one, right? So yeah it's similarly applies the rules that here. We are blocking it. Right? And other thing is that where we can allow specific qualities only to be hosted on the provider. So those things gonna happen right as you can see here right now, we are blocking it. Right but similar things you can do is that we can allow the wallets to be there. So yeah, that's number one thing what we have done And as can you be able to see that not our provider has been here Our provided is something Neo doctors.com, right which is not here and it's on my favorite list as well. Right? So as you can see + +Deval Patel: sign of Provider here Yeah, so that's something what we did for the blocking the car allowing the wallet address. I'm going to close this list and switch over to the wallet address, which actually allows. + +Deval Patel: Of the wallet address, And as you can see here, this wallet address here right is ending with KJ and zero seven, right and here it says clearly that only this wallet interest is allowed to be hosted on this Provider right cage engines and 07 right? + +Deval Patel: Im let me deploy. This one because I want to show you something else but on that too. remove this accept list for now right and going to go with the employment + +Deval Patel: In this case, what should happen is that should complete means our bid should come here, right and you will notice that We do not have any error at this point of time There should be somewhere a bit complete message. + +Deval Patel: It because of some RPC. Let me just That happens sometimes I'm not sure but I'm going to talk to Andreas that so yeah, there was some bug like we came in right and the fabric I'll show this thing to entry after the meeting. for Scott + +Deval Patel: Yeah here it says the build field But here I can see my provider actually made it. Anyways, I'm going to accept this page for now, right because this purpose the segment of the demo is to show you guys that we are blocking the image right any image right now, just to show you guys the demo right? We have blocking the image, which is a calculatics actually right anything to do with the Athletics. We are blocking it right not to show you guys anything with actually content or something, right? So we are blocking the accusatics thing. once we deploy + +Deval Patel: so here, It says the error while sending the Manifest for the provider image name contains the accolatics which is not allowed right and that way we are basically blocking the image, right and we're not allowing manifest to be Posted on this provider So I don't think I mean no explicit content are any content which you don't like or which you don't want to like to host it right? We will not be hosted right then that's a demo for the image blocking. our image a lot Okay. + +00:20:00 + +Deval Patel: I'm going to close this at this point of time because this list will not be hosted and will not be up and running right. I want to mention here is that there is another part in the moderation API, which is called management API where provider will be able to close the lease as well. Right? And if that happens then here right now manually deploy has to manually close the lease, If that happens then provider we be able to close the lease as well. Right? And that's something it came out from the working group and we are going to implement that as well coming days. Okay, so that was a segment to which is blocking the images, right? + +Deval Patel: let if I don't have the image, which is a Catholics. Let's say I have Tetris came right? I'm going to deploy this right but notice here. + +Deval Patel: Guys, I'm going to say that anything with the case code is calm as in host name, right? I'm going to block it because that's providing my profile domain name, right? And I don't want to host anything on my provider domain basically, right other than the other thing other things can be word related on Etc or stuff like that or anything which you do not want to entertain on your provider, right that can be too. Okay. So I'm going to say here that I don't want anything to be hosted regarding anything to face.com which is why domain And going to deploy this right? So as soon as I said click on this + +Deval Patel: Yeah, it says bead Complete because I use the Allowed wallet address right? So paid is complete. I'm going to use this wallet address at this point of time. I'm into deploy the Manifest will go through this time because for it as it searches for word accostatics, which is not that right and that Trace is allowed but it will give me another error saying that host him contains a scooters, right which is not allowed at this point of time. So basically my manifest did not go through right and I can close this list because anyways this police is dormant. There is no actual deployment running behind it. Right? So I'm going to close this. + +Deval Patel: And successful scenario means that any of these things does You means I have my wallet address whitelisted. I have my image white listed, right and I'm not using the Illegal or blocked domain and that would be Predator app.com, So let's say I have the preterite.com domain name, right? And if I want to host that here right that I should be able to do that. + +Deval Patel: Yeah, so bit got complete means the page should come here. Right and I can accept speed. From my provider and going to accept it. So now the image passes the domain name passes the blocking list, right? So that should successfully deploy the project or the game. + +Deval Patel: And as you can see here, I can go to this thing or here and I can play the game, right? + +00:25:00 + +Deval Patel: yeah, + +Deval Patel: This is the progress of so far of we have made going to update the thing which can be more dynamically and allow this block and disabled things to be allowed from greater app itself. And as well as the CID tax, that's what we are looking at this point of time right now as well. As we are going to implement the management API in next few days actually and going to release this updated version of the provider service and give it to the taste testing to the core team and internal people means to me or other people can test out right and once they are happy and to the basement we can push it to the main net. That's the plan at this point of time. Yeah. I'm open for the questions if + +Deval Patel: had + +Tyler Wright: Don't have Andrey. + +Andrey Arapov: Is it like they do modify the provider code or used something else? + +Deval Patel: No, I'm being modified provider code. + +Andrey Arapov: ICI reporting to submit the full requests for the Upstream. + +Deval Patel: Yes, we are going to submit the pull request as soon as we had done with satisfactory with the dynamic codes in terms of cids updateable as well as we are done with the allow and block list both and things like that. It will take a couple of days. + +Andrey Arapov: Okay, fantastic work. + +Deval Patel: But yes, we are going to put the question. + +Andrey Arapov: Thank you very much for the main come for work. Looking forward to pairs. + +Deval Patel: Yeah, thank you. So that the plan like we did this and I'm not sure and it is here in the call or not. But what we would like to do like we would have liked to do is that we would have gone to the provider service you wanted to understand how to provide a service code is written and things like that and that way in future if anything happens if there is a more work towards the coordinator service and if we are able to contribute then we would be able to conflict we would like to contribute that was the nature of this exercise to do. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, I think Deval to that point. I believe you have access to a + +Tyler Wright: Issue inside the Akash project roadmap specifically for Content moderation. I know a Neil would like to been here… + +Deval Patel: Yeah. + +Tyler Wright: but has a conflict today. If you can update that issue with some of the things that you mentioned here and then I'm going to drop in the notes in the video. That'd be great reference point. So a Neil can catch up and get next steps and we could talk about again further support of provided services and content moderation. + +Deval Patel: Absolutely. + +Tyler Wright: Benjamin National sorry had your hand up. Go ahead. + +Tyler Wright: Yes, I was going to bring those up much appreciated. I had these to the notes but Ben dropped in some strategies that I think he created around the price script that might be worth looking at them. And again, I think members of the core team also be looking at those and then Benjamin asks sdl can be valid with a lot of weird characters that are not recognized could apis be circumvented by some weird characters and that's something that Andrey was all so mentioning you might be worth testing. To follow the ebony direct comments related to testing some of these nuanced cases with weird characters. + +Deval Patel: Yeah, so our proof take this request and consultation as Right and our priority will be fulfill whatever the work came out of the working group first, right? Once that is done hundred percent, We will entertain all the requests which comes through this call or any means right and we will examine that our real need of that and we'll make the call definitely. + +Deval Patel: I hope that answers you. + +Tyler Wright: Perfect. Yeah, thank you very much. Does anyone else have any questions about any of the updates that the prior team has been working on as pertains to contact moderation and management in moderation apis? + +00:30:00 + +Tyler Wright: cool + +Tyler Wright: I want to be conscious of folks time, but I do want to because there are so many important members of the community here, especially on the provider side. I do want to see if there's any other topics related to the provider experience that anybody wants to bring up now, again, there's so many talented folks here that are running large clusters of either GPU providers have been on the network for a long time and maybe some of if not the first gpus to be run on the network again. I'm not gonna call anybody out by name and But there's a number of people in this call that are very intimate with the provider experience. I just want to see if there's any other talking points any other topics worth discussing or anything next that should be potentially a high discuss and point after content moderation that anybody wants to start to bring up right now. + +Damir Simpovic: May I sorry I didn't raise my hand. + +Tyler Wright: Of course. No, go ahead. + +Damir Simpovic: so hi folks. What happens if? somebody just clones the image in for instance. We saw now that you're blocking the akashlytics what happens if somebody just takes this image renames it? + +Damir Simpovic: just uses the same exact image. But it has a different name. + +Damir Simpovic: I'm guessing that that image would still run. But yeah. + +Andrey Arapov: Yeah, damiro. I think you're pretty much right. I think that they are escaping based on the image name of this room, and I just want to mention that the other day. I was trying to run o. My minor on Foundry provider things is here. And they basically were just killing the process even when I found into the typical simply Ubuntu image container running and then I just like run XM rate. I was just getting killed. So there are some systems that can be employed in your very faster. We should be monitoring this kind of things and I'm not sure exactly what solution they are using. Maybe is that can give such some more lights on that nice. + +Deval Patel: Yeah, so on that part, I think the tooling what I entry model had right would be helpful or that is now I think under Community as well. Right and we can expand that are to address the school. Another thing is that let's say we are going to give the management API where they can look into the content of the + +Deval Patel: Image are things like that. Right and they will be able to close that as well. + +Tyler Wright: I saw Zach put a message in the chat. Zach are you or any other providers currently using The Chaperone service from Andrew Miller? I know that Andrew has it running on some of his providers, but I just want to see if anybody else's been able to run it and has any experience with it. Hoping Andrew would be on this call. + +Zach Ross: Yeah, I've been running it for the last couple weeks actually. + +Tyler Wright: excellent + +Zach Ross: Let me pull it up really quick. But basically it in its current state will look for specific images file types and… + +Tyler Wright: Yeah. + +Zach Ross: processes and delete the namespace for the lease if it doesn't like what it sees with respect to you can list out your own kind of file types to look for. so + +Zach Ross: for example My company was not all that enthusiastic about some of the Ubuntu images that were being run on our provider that were kind of playing around with SSH Keys. It looked like so I was able to ban any kind of sshd file types which on the one hand has caused good acting leases to get terminated. but I think it allows us to be able to worry a bunch less. Like Andrew said on the last meeting. + +00:35:00 + +Tyler Wright: Excellent. Thank you very much Zach for timing. I appreciate that. + +Scott Carruthers: Is Zach I'm sorry. I think I missed the very beginning part of that. what was the necessity for images that are including SSH + +Zach Ross: so it checks for The Chaperone service checks for keyword files image names and general processes that are going on in the cluster. let me link the file to you guys. I can find it really quick. a bareback + +Tyler Wright: No problem. Again, while Zach is handling that if anybody has any other topics of discussion again, this has been a very active group. I would love for there to be a priority list of things that folks on the provider community on the cost Network want to handle obviously Beyond content moderation. There's a number of things that I think that can be improved or go ahead Zach. + +Zach Ross: Yeah, so just linked it right there. Another thing that + +Tyler Wright: Zach, Your signal might have broken up a little bit. + +Zach Ross: it's + +Tyler Wright: But I can hear you again. Maybe it's just me can anybody there? But anybody else have any issue hearing Zach? + +Deval Patel: Yeah, I think in broker. + +Scott Carruthers: yes it cut out for a minute, but + +Zach Ross: Sorry about that. Yeah, so I was looking into some pod security standards and… + +Tyler Wright: That you're good. You're + +Zach Ross: least deployments on Akash run the containers as the root user. And I think that was a consideration that my security team was kind of interested in preventing. So I looked into certain mutation policy where we could actually just have kubernetes by default adjust the root user to another user for when these containers are spun up. And I was struggling to find any mutation policy, but there's some good validation policy available. I was just curious kind of what your guys's thoughts are on maybe making some Network changes to Create a separate Akash user for all these container deployments. + +Scott Carruthers: Do you have any thoughts on those regards? + +Tyler Wright: right + +Andrey Arapov: If the question is to make sure they're through users blocked for the user deployments so they can just deploy anything except for the root user. For that there is some security policy cells sharing the other day. It's possible to Implement on the community level but on the level of cash. it has to be a future request basically because all things need to be changed. such as Docker image to the specify the user and this things need to be checked as well. So it's more of a deeper consideration and probably worth starting up some discussion in the cash Repository. + +Andrey Arapov: With the use case and these things like Mr. Be drafted there and the other question is that is the default user root or not. But I think it's the other question. believe because normally all the processes are running as root in the system But whenever a user runs something in the container, it is a root process. There is also remapping possibility of the user IDs. But it's also another thing and it has all drawbacks. So yeah, it's worse. Of course the discussion I believe. + +Tyler Wright: Before we move on to Samuel. Zach. I was just gonna say if you want feel free to drop a discussion. There is a steering committee meeting tomorrow. So if you have the bandwidth to drop a discussion today, I can make sure that it gets passed on to the core team members and it could be discussed tomorrow during steering committee. Otherwise, we could discuss async in that GitHub discussion and then set up some time either separately or maybe during a Sig meeting to discuss further. So I would say that's the next steps there for sure. + +00:40:00 + +Zach Ross: I should be able to make it tomorrow. So I'll do my best to join you all there. + +Tyler Wright: Awesome. Go ahead Sam. + +Samuel Walker: Hey there. Yeah, I just wanted to follow up on the topic of the kind of best situation security policies and all fun stuff meeting Web book. And I'm like some of my Lots up and move to come over but in a nutshell on what I have found useful and this is not being applied to me just running information in general. I'd like to do that for more memory job. Bruno has been useful for applying anything web hooks in addition to kind of running policies related to everything like a positive label or Paul needs to not run as root or such now, there's things that can even go to further we have permission what books Mission policies but I feel like that be a primary tool that would be useful to close your providers. I'm going to more detail about + +Zach Ross: You said kyverno Samuel? + +Samuel Walker: Yes, okay Bruno. So it's essentially an agent that runs on the cluster or often cluster. If you want to kind of go better more of this and it on because it can block, everything from being able to be deploy the first place but it's an open source project of similar to there was one other one that also supported all policies, but it was more native instead of for convey specifically. But can do everything from even analyzing images to whatever. You can simply putting Yama. Let me join my laptop here real quick. So I want + +Tyler Wright: No problem. Yeah, it would be great. If you could drop a link Samuel on the chat. I throw it in the notes for reference. + +Tyler Wright: Yep, you could. + +Samuel Walker: Cool. How's it going? Yeah, Bruno. So there was convertible and there is Opa which is open policy agent, but me and a lot of my team. for context + +Samuel Walker: I work for red hat on your ownership side of things. But I also run an LLC other side that holds a native kubernetes cluster, but we have both at times. Look at KY Bruno and open policy. agents It gets brought up occasionally and say infra on the Upstream side of things for kubernetes side. Not the here the six and kubernetesland, but + +Samuel Walker: Essentially, I've owners referred get some work today's native and you're doing essentially just multi. Yamlapping as you were declaring the speck and deployment an image of such kindness follow that line to do a check to see if it's not to what you have and there's a little bit of Red X nobody scared, but it's kind of simple to use. + +Zach Ross: In my experience. I also use chiviera now. I just wanted to make that known to everyone. It's been pretty easy to install with helm. + +Samuel Walker: On that I just have one follow-up question when it comes to such things like that because image referencing and I primarily use Hardware to kind of prevent certain images that don't pass a certain CPS score from my first place. what happens on Akash when maybe the system automatically accepts a bit but look, deploys the image in the cluster doesn't do it because of security thing like what is the profit probably method to I guess follow up with hey, this image is not allowed or is that what's being talked about now as far as how to notify. the Akashi to do that. + +Andrey Arapov: Is your question what happens if cannot get the image what happens to the User submitted or the request? Is that your question? + +Samuel Walker: But my question is more of how do I let the user know in advance or the blockchain? No Advance. However, I want to I guess put it that I'm not gonna be running this image because of my existing security policies. + +00:45:00 + +Andrey Arapov: definitely. This would deserves a discussion. I think of a higher team hardening of the cash cluster basically, but yeah because there are several ways, it could be I think broadcasting it over the blockchain doesn't make sense because the brightest will be spending tokens. And I think we could leverage something like provider attributes, basically. + +Tyler Wright: Yes Samuel to answer your question at a high level. This is something that actively being talked about right now. So these content moderation conversations having something that's actively been thought about by members of the community and overclock Labs team since Inception, but the focus has just been continuing to build the core product which it's continuing to grow and grow the community and again rely on members of the community to help figure some of these things out. So you're like and basically the ground floor of some of these conversations had being happening right now the prey toward team Deval who just gave a presentation these member of that the prayer team there are a tool that many people use to set up providers. They are building out Cooling and continuing to provide a services in some moderation and management apis. That is one way of controlling content. + +Tyler Wright: Generation there is another Community member angiomelo who used to be a part of the overclock core team who is also a large provider on the network who is developed his own Solutions and own kind of the experience as Andre just put in the chat Deval solution. And the priority team solution is a first line defense in The Chaperone services like a deeper Solution that's being built up. I believe Zach is and his providers have already implemented The Chaperone OS solution developed by Andrew mellow. So just continue conversations and always looking for contributions. I know that you've been involved a lot lately so much appreciate that. + +Tyler Wright: I know we have about a few minutes left again. Is there any other questions comments related to contamineration Benjamin? I see your hand up. Go ahead. + +Benjamin B: I just wanted to say it's not possible to send the information back to what it was rejected. when they send the manifest like we saw in the demo there was on the cloud most it mentioned something and was not accepted because this was in the STL a string was found still. Because it's not the extra plated and used in the entire system. + +Deval Patel: We are giving the air in terms of when the deploy it right and they will get this error actually regardless of whether they do it on through the GUI or through the CLI, right? That's not a problem. But when they want to look at the Historical or anything like that, then there might be problem or even if they deployed and they don't look at logs or they don't keep the pop-up messages and that is a problem in terms of saying that why about deployment is not up and running right but that's just users ignorance in terms of looking at the log or looking at the quip of I would say. + +Benjamin B: I think one solution could be. saving the logs a little and encrypting them in a way that it could be decrypted by only the tenants + +Deval Patel: Yeah and that's something and we can bring it up in the client meeting as well. Right? That's something falls under clients, preview because think about it right that whatever the logs in terms of providers. we have the logs and we are going to keep that there is no issue on keeping on the log on provider side. But how do we keep track of the deployments and why they got closed or why they got rejected right? That's something has to do with the client side, So yeah, I mean other than myself and to our Scott can answer more on this as well, right? But yeah. That's My overall suggestion + +00:50:00 + +Tyler Wright: excellent All Again, does anybody have any other topics maybe we won't focus on them today, but we can focus on them between meetings and at the next monthly meeting but if anybody has any topics that they want to discuss further, whether it be more specific aspects of content moderation or other topics on related to Providers, feel free to throw those in that year real quick and I'll add them to the notes or feel free to add them in Discord and we can talk about those for the meeting again. If anybody has any issues that they've opened up again, I'll make sure that if they haven't got a dress we'll get a dress but feel free to join big support which happens every two weeks Wednesday morning times eastern time and Pacific time and afternoon, if you're in Europe Asia and Africa + +Tyler Wright: But again during the sixth support meeting we talked further about specific technical issues happening with the core product and potential fixes. But much appreciate everyone's time. Thank you pray to our team for the demo and the work that you let you all have been doing will look for more updates between meetings in the sick providers group. And I know that thank you Zach for your employee provided on the work that you've been doing handling your provider using chaperone OS And hopefully you can get that discussion up so we can talk about it real time tomorrow. But if not again, we'll make sure that it gets a prioritized as soon as possible. You must appreciate everybody contributing today. Thank you Ben for the demo that you shared and again anybody has any further questions comments Feel free to reach out to me or feel free to drop them sick providers or any other respective channels inside the cache Network, Discord. + +Tyler Wright: Hope everyone has a great day and feel free to join the steering committee where again we will talk more about everything that's going on their Cosh Community, but more specifically I'm sure we'll talk about content moderation and some of the other topics happening in providers. So if anybody wants to join steering committee that's happening tomorrow and is a culmination of all the six and working groups that ends the month. Hope everyone has a great day again. Enjoy yourself. Thank you all for participation. Bye. + +Meeting ended after 00:53:15 👋 + + + diff --git a/sig-support/meetings/020-2023-10-25.md b/sig-support/meetings/020-2023-10-25.md index 861188b2..09678b64 100644 --- a/sig-support/meetings/020-2023-10-25.md +++ b/sig-support/meetings/020-2023-10-25.md @@ -6,7 +6,6 @@ - Artur will lead triaging issues, and discussion of implementation for issue fixes. - Artur and Anil will lead discussion putting severity on issues. - Scott will discuss Support from the community and ask for any community feedback. -- P - Participants can have an open discussion of any other issues or support related items on Akash Network. ## Meeting Details diff --git a/sig-support/meetings/022-2023-11-22.md b/sig-support/meetings/022-2023-11-22.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cde0753d --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-support/meetings/022-2023-11-22.md @@ -0,0 +1,437 @@ +# Akash Network - Support Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #21 + +## Agenda + +- Participants will look at issues in [Akash Support Repo](https://github.com/akash-network/support/issues). +- Artur will lead triaging issues, and discussion of implementation for issue fixes. +- Artur and Anil will lead discussion putting severity on issues. +- Scott will discuss Support from the community and ask for any community feedback. +- Participants can have an open discussion of any other issues or support related items on Akash Network. + +## Meeting Details + +- Date: Wednesday, November 22nd, 2023 +- Time: 07:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://l5yeilkhvwmpqetchbk2pax4nxmu6miv23cxy7iszl7nvgbk4lka.arweave.net/X3BELUetmPgSYjhVp4L8bdlPMRXWxXx9Esr-2pgq4tQ) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +# Participants + +- Andrey Arapov +- Artur Troian +- Benjamin B +- Deval Patel +- Max +- Rodrigo Rochin +- Scott Carruthers +- Tyler Wright +- Zeke E + + +# Notes + +- Artur talked about how busy the last couple of weeks have been. There was a mishap with 1 small edge case after the network upgrade. +- New Mainnet 9 coming next week, November 28th, 2023. This should be a quick upgrade. No action is needed for any clients. +- Artur talked about AMD support. This is something that has been thought about it since GPUs were brought onto Akash. +- Testing of AMD provider will be tested on the sandbox after the network upgrade. +- Provider will need to be upgraded when AMD is implented. +- Scott has been working on Feature Discovery. This is a "p1" issue. +- The group talked about issue 153. All issues need to be in proper formatting. Benjamin has talked to this user on discord. +- From experience, any feedback or recommendations i've given to the user has not been followed. there's no reason to waste time on someone asking questions but not listening to the answers. +- The group talked about issue 144. Artur mentioned that there is no way to fix it right now. +- Issue 148 was discussed. Andrey mentioned that this might be fixed with v0.30.0. We will monitor it. This issue was assigned to Andrey. +- Sig-chain mainnet 8 is closed. + + +## Support + +- Not all providers have upgraded to mainnet 8. +- Praetor team is working with users who had trouble during the upgrade, and did not use 1 click upgrade. +- Rodri noticed that there are old docs from old network upgrades. +- Rodri talked about his provider issue. He installed some extra stuff on his provider during the upggrade. +- Deval asked about how to decrease development time. Artur asked Scott to share link to development documentation. +- Scott shared documentation with Deval https://github.com/chainzero/akash-engineering-notes/tree/main/akash-development-environment. +- Artur gave a demo as apart of a new series with developer office hours during sig-support biweekly. +- The demo was around Akash development environment setup. + + +## Action Items + +- Track issue 148. ThiS may be solved. +- Discuss issue 153 after network upgrade to Mainnet 9. +- Max will be working on endpoints for Praetor team. +- Make a new issue for sig-chain Mainnet 9. + + +# **Transcript** + +_This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created._ + +Tyler Wright: All right, welcome everybody. Who seek support monthly meeting I believe this is number 22 or student biweekly meeting number 22 during these six support biweekly meetings. The group goes over any open issues in the support repo anything that's a waiting triage and Artur and sometimes Scott lead the group through triassing those issues last week or excuse me, two weeks ago Artur was out of office of Scott. Let us through triaging and looking through a number of issues in the support repo. + +Tyler Wright: One other thing that we're looking to add as a part of the sixth support biweekly is after we triage issues and if anybody has any questions about any issues and those questions are answered we're gonna hand it over like we normally do to talk to Andrey who's been very hands on and support and some of the other members of the Insiders that are on this call to talk about any support issues or any issues that might need further conversation when it comes to new and existing users using We find in Discord and then after that if any time remains and usually we do have time to remains after that, I want to start opening it up to technical questions. So I know that Archer and Scott members of the core team along with Andre + +Tyler Wright: Are often at these meetings? And so again if there's any time left after triaging any issues and support repo and talking about General support in Discord and Beyond I do want to give some time for folks that have specific questions. I know deval's here today from the pray to our team. We've been working on content moderation and we'll hear a little bit more about that in Sig providers, but I know he has some specific questions related to the code base and so again, When the opportunity presents itself, I want to use some of this time for members of the community to meet with members of the core team to help with anything very technical. + +Tyler Wright: So without further Ado, I'm going to hand it over to Archer to get us going with triaging any issues initiating and the support retail. + +Artur Troian: Thanks, Hello, Alright, so last couple weeks were quite busy for us. So on this last Sunday we formed. successful Network upgrade There was a little mishap in one of the things, like the new feature it's Be attributes. + +Artur Troian: one of the functions Was implemented slightly right? So we are on the way to make one more Network Tuesday, November 28. It should be really quick and does not change doesn't alter any state. It's just + +Artur Troian: the behavior called function does cross validation between the order so hopefully it will be really quick and there's no actions required from any clients. It's purely the blockchain conversation. Moving on. Yeah, we have I think. Not that many new issues right now. So I want to talk about this one. + +Artur Troian: We have been thinking about MD my sense In southern our table and we have pretty much everything to support that. Right after Network upgrades next Tuesday. We will be a bread updating provider that allows users that allows provider to beat on MD. And gpus so right now this part is disabled intentionally. As soon as we do that we will be doing the testing on the sandbox. Say that you don't have any major issues and if everything goes it will be publishing provider. Vs. MD support. So once again from that perspective, there will be no updates needed by the clients. It's really The Wider part. of this feature + +Artur Troian: The next one is future Discovery. This is rather big Improvement and Scott is more money working on that. So we don't have any levels here one wider idea is that we want to improve visibility on Water Resources provider how as well as a remove manual lightly of the nodes for example, writing for the persistent storage and the gpus as well as this service will be updating provider attributes on chain. So the completely rules are user error. I mean users to provide owners still will be able to do that. They need to but we try to encourage to that's a provider features of our service is out. + +00:05:00 + +Artur Troian: Providers to just use automated thing as well as we still thinking that to add quite a few same into the future Discovery. It will be merged with the inventory service. and the gonna drastically improve visibility of the dashboards like Cloud boss. To see what actual amount of gpus and what exact model of the gpus for example available and given a Time. + +Artur Troian: Okay, and this one, what is that? my God. I mean Yeah, this is. + +Artur Troian: Let me see. + +Artur Troian: Let me just answer. + +Andrey Arapov: I think someone is just running a SSH service and it's getting killed. I think actually this one of the deployments that was causing all those zombies + +Artur Troian: and yeah, let's go start with promoting the sdl. + +Andrey Arapov: Yeah. + +Artur Troian: + +Tyler Wright: While archers are typing response go ahead Benjamin. + +Benjamin B: those wanted to say that this user has written in the Discord server as well and some of the suspected reasons to why crashes is that he's trying to deploy something with only one gigabyte of storage and then when it tries to install something that's larger than one gigabyte. Of course, it will crush because the STL and the lease is more limited than what he's trying to do. I wrote to him in this group that is trying to rent the persistent storage as 100 gigabytes or whatever depending on my stylus using but unless + +Artur Troian: Yeah, yeah, let's see. I've encourage everyone if you see such poorly formatted requests or the issues, let's start first of all with awesome them to promote it properly because it's just absolutely + +Artur Troian: Unreadable, right and why should anyone Vice the time to try to realize what's going on there? so yeah, I just made the + +Artur Troian: reply there. moving on. Let me see. + +Artur Troian: the first of all lost + +Artur Troian: Good. Yeah. + +Artur Troian: Yeah for this one. I don't think + +00:10:00 + +Artur Troian: I still in trying to figure out what's going on here. + +Andrey Arapov: Do you want me to tell you? + +Artur Troian: The problem the wider is going to take each other GPU it has available. so + +Artur Troian: let's yeah, we will review that after the upgrade I think Or maybe would fix this thing. If there is an issue is the MD support. + +Artur Troian: and yeah, so this is the sdlery design and there is no way we can improve it right now, unfortunately. + +Artur Troian: Okay, so that's the service count here. that you see. + +Artur Troian: All right, that one is done. So what happens with this issues is the wider statistics. it's purely the statistics of point. So it doesn't account the replicas for the cheap resource image On this objective marketing to fix that. + +Andrey Arapov: I think I've tested this. + +Artur Troian: that is + +Andrey Arapov: Sorry Artur for previous one. I think it's already solved but we'll see in all 29 or c0 that I tried setting one GPU encount to and it's seen us to request it. So, I mean, it's possible that your latest commit fixes this in all 30 Network. + +Artur Troian: Okay. Thank you. Okay, so I'm not sure what we can do here that is all already supported and I believe you talk about that. So the ram be + +Artur Troian: it does so as soon as label. Let's say not + +Artur Troian: this attribute is not quite actually correct. It has to be like that. + +Artur Troian: please + +Artur Troian: And so it has to be this way. mmm + +Artur Troian: Okay. + +Artur Troian: Yeah, so as soon as not is labeled and the + +Artur Troian: and why they're attributes labeled correctly into work so that I believe it all has invested in the you test not so. + +Artur Troian: Yeah, I don't think anything to do here. Is that okay? + +Artur Troian: double check + +Artur Troian: Okay, so you are here? + +Andrey Arapov: And I send it to me, I will go of his Foundry. I will try this attribute. + +Artur Troian: presentation All right,… + +Andrey Arapov: Thanks. + +Artur Troian: I think yeah, this one is done. + +00:15:00 + +Artur Troian: So that was when you don't date on 19. + +Artur Troian: okay, I think that covers any questions + +Tyler Wright: Thank you As Archer just asking anyone have any questions about any open issues before we move on to General support. + +Tyler Wright: After we talk about again any issues that need triage and if anybody doesn't have any questions or after we talked about the question related to any open issues and support o. The next part of the agenda is around just general support and Discord and in other channels with members of the community new and existing users that are interacting with the crash. I know that Scott has previously been giving some updates but now that he's more an engineering side and Andrey been helping a lot with providers. I'm going to ask Andre if there's anything he's seen in Discord on the provider side and then there's a number of insiders here that I'm hoping will continue to come to this meeting and give any updates that they see for many users either deploying or becoming a provider so Andre, I know that you're quite active in Discord helping again providers. + +Tyler Wright: Helping anybody that needs support with the cash. Is there anything that you're seeing over the last couple of weeks that might be worth note to the group here today? + +Andrey Arapov: August the main concerns that not all providers have upgraded to maintain or they may be have but they need to bounce the cash provider pod. Basically, they providers need to always check that they can beat after they upgrade probably added to the next procedure for great. So the ensure that The quality is there so I guess the only point and don't have anything else to add. I guess nothing comes to my mind as of right now. + +Tyler Wright: I said go ahead Deval. + +Deval Patel: Eight of our providers so far. I'll create that's what I know. I don't know how the objective later right? That was the number last night. I'll double check. today morning and find out. Yeah, that's right who is not being able to update using one? Click button or something? some people actually tried doing, the official document and one click great those people having issues somewhere, right? So I'm trying to help + +Tyler Wright: Executive all that's a good call out. One thing that will make sure that we do is clear as possible is because I did see this in a channel when myself or Andre are making announcements. what we tried to do is as early as soon as we can we try to share information with the page to our team. Sometimes it's running up against the clock and they don't have much time to be able to do one click upgrades. But again, we try to share that information with the parade or team as quickly that the provider upgrade had been tested and are ready to go out when we make announcements. We'll make sure moving forward to make it clear that if anybody's as upgraded or has used parade or path for their build to have Specific Instructions that will link to the ecosystem pray to our page and then Deval into gar will get the instructions on when things are ready to go there. + +Tyler Wright: just so we can try to avoid any extra confusion for folks again, even though both are using Helm charts. It seems like there may have been some issues for a couple of folks. So we'll make sure that the messaging is very clear and then in the provider announcement channels and the providers Channel moving forward for those that are again upgrading or using pretor for their bill versus using CLI at home + +Tyler Wright: Does any insiders have any other things that they've been seeing recently from the community that might be worth either potentially improving to documentation or moving to the process in general that might be worth talking about now. + +00:20:00 + +Tyler Wright: I'll take that as enough. All right. I appreciate go ahead Patrick. + +Rodrigo Rochin: Is I couldn't find the antique. Yeah, I had the little confusion the other day with a document an upgrade. I noticed that there are instructions in the docs from previous upgrade part of their necessary necessary still if not, maybe get rid of some. + +Tyler Wright: Thank you I think that's a great idea. comb through the site and see if there's any older documentation. This is a beautiful segue into there is a Sig documentation meeting happening. Next Tuesday as has been previously discussed. We are going to be relying on the community more in 2024 to help with documentation. There will be some bounties and rewards around those that are consistently contributing to adding new editing documentation. I know the onus has been on Scott for a long time and again with him moving into more of an engineering capacity. We just want to take that off of his plate Andrey and I will be there to help. + +Tyler Wright: Help with submissions and help with RS. Obviously I could help with a copy standpoint and making sure things are structure properly will have very specific instructions on how the structure of the facts should look how the quality of images Etc. So, there will be a framework in some specific rules that we'll discuss next Tuesday, but I know there's a number of people on this call that have shown interest in documentation and Andre will be there somebody that can look at the code. And yes, this makes sense and then, be a test and then again, we'll certainly be relying on the community as well because Andrea the number of other things that he's actively working on for overclock, so It'll be like a team effort. But we just want to make sure that we're getting consistent contribution from folks in the community that can contribute because certainly will need it. + +Rodrigo Rochin: Keep looking through doctors and I'll share the ones that I think are not relevant anymore. Will you do whatever you think of them? + +Tyler Wright: Excellent I much appreciate that Roger. + +Tyler Wright: cool, All right, so I'll go ahead. + +Rodrigo Rochin: through the upgrade recently, and I don't have for instance persistent storage enabled and there's this step that I was supposed to skip but I ran the command. I don't know if I messed up anything or not, I guess not because I think it's working. + +Tyler Wright: Are you saying that there was a command that didn't need to be in the documentation or are you saying that you're having issues with your provider right now? I might have missed that question. Okay, perfect. + +Rodrigo Rochin: from that and that document I ran the command on 2.5 step 2.5. Which I shouldn't have because I don't have presentation search but I didn't read about skipping that section after until afterwards. + +Rodrigo Rochin: I guess nothing happens if I run that. Or should I do something? + +Tyler Wright: So I think Roger's question is if he ran the command to ask for precision stores,… + +Deval Patel: yeah, I Know none,… + +Tyler Wright: but doesn't have persistent stores set up. Yeah. + +Deval Patel: nothing will happen if that command view run with the install then it might have installed. But other than that we should be fine. + +Tyler Wright: Again, we've gone through the part of the agenda where Artur leads us through triaging any issues that need triaging in the support repo. I know that the cloud most team does a great job of any issues that come through Discord or anywhere else that get put in the issues inside the cloud most o. They do a great job of responding to those issues and fixing them in real time so much. Appreciate the Max's Real quick is there anything Cloud most related that anybody wants to talk about as it partake to open issues in the cloud most repo? + +00:25:00 + +Tyler Wright: Yeah I know that they're doing a great job Max that you go out mute. I'm sorry. Did you want to say something? + +Max: Yeah, so when I say to develop that I'll be working on the endpoints that you guys requested to be built today. + +Tyler Wright: Okay. + +Max: So all the + +Deval Patel: Okay, sounds good. Thank you so much, Mike. + +Tyler Wright: Thank you Max. So again, if anybody has any issues related to Cloud please throw those in the cloud most repo and then those issues will be worked out by the Max's again everything continue to talk about those issues here during the six support meeting or we via the specific issues in that report. + +Tyler Wright: Cool, we've also talked about just general support and Discord and other channels. Thank you. Rodri Ben Max many people on this call Andrey that are just active and Discord and making sure that again users are getting the kind of support that they need. I know that it's a number of people that have written to me talking about how quickly they give responses and how it just an improve their user experience so much appreciate the folks that are active on Discord all the time. + +Tyler Wright: This part of the agenda again is a little bit new where we want to have folks that maybe have technical questions get to ask those technical questions Who members of the core team? I've asked of all to join the call. I know that he's been working on content moderation and as a result is been looking at the provider and provider code-based code a significant amount has been working on content moderation Deval. I know that you had specific questions that maybe Artur Others might be able to help with so I want to maybe give you the floor to be able to ask those questions. If anybody else want to drop off feel free. But again, this will be recorded and we want to use this time as a place for insiders vanguards and just Dental members of the community to ask any technical questions, whether it be around products that they're working on that are + +Tyler Wright: built on top of the cost or just the core code base. And again, we'll just try to do this every two weeks and just try to keep it to the hour time slot that we have. The Deval pass it over to you because I know that you had some specific questions at the pertains to content moderation implementation. + +Deval Patel: Thank you So a couple of things I want to give update and mention before we jump into any cool business stuff. So I'm trying to do the coding, in the provider Service as you guys already know what I do is that basically I fought the Ripple and tried as well as the provider and whenever I need to make some changes or taste it right. I push those changes in my frog triple in provider and help and then I tasted becoming provider and things like that, but is there any other way which I can use and do the development faster than I would like to learn that That's number one thing and that's most challenging because then I need to wait for I plan to be past and the talker Bill to be around and + +Deval Patel: things like that, So that will reduce my development time in terms of many hours Yeah, that's one thing. I want to learn. + +Artur Troian: Yeah, so there is a way to do that Scott. Can you please share link to the development environment documentation? So if you look into run Cube directory. That's the way it works. So there's a bunch of my commands and there's actually with me file in it if you go into. + +Deval Patel: I actually tried that right and… + +Artur Troian: Let me stay home and second if you go to run. + +Deval Patel: I was struggling to + +Artur Troian: Yeah, if you go to run read me runcube read me and… + +Deval Patel: okay. + +Artur Troian: just goes slowly step by step like how to initiate it. we take this out quite a few times and there's a documentation Scott you people point you. So the biggest challenge issues you have to use multiple terminal windows. So the node is running one and then you have a provider running and then you just have a third terminal. That you execute your commands. So once again, you check if you go through the readme file that step by step. It says I dedicated, separate or new terminal window for each command. If you just go step by step it will help you to start using it. + +00:30:00 + +Artur Troian: as well as once again,… + +Deval Patel: Okay. + +Artur Troian: yeah, there's a documentation on I believe that thoroughly goes through that and we have been testing it for quite a while and that's actually what we use internally to develop teachers and best things. + +Deval Patel: Okay, that would be very helpful, right? + +Artur Troian: Yeah, so yeah, just to summarize on that. We've been thinking on doing developer office hours. + +Artur Troian: Then gonna show people how to be more involved in the code bias. And so if I can actually try to demonstrate it right now if there is a lot of questions, I'm okay to do that. Okay. + +Deval Patel: which yes + +Deval Patel: Yeah, that would be helpful. so few things to go through that and the developer office hours is a great idea because that way we can learn about the s. There are So let's say the bead engine module the order module and things like that that would be a helpful for us to understand, this module does this stuff? Right? And this is the direction of the code or framework of the court, and that way we can be more productively involved in coding the provider service if needed to be right. So yeah, I don't have much because CID part I already kind of figure out right so I don't have question on part, that particles is all on my side. The next question I have is how to to close all these or at least closing trans. + +Deval Patel: Works and I wanted to understand the flow of the lease closed transaction. And because now we want to allow the providers to be able to close the lease as well rather than developers on deployers only So that part needs to be tricked in the provider Service as well as them if there is a node involved and yes then that has to be done. Right? But I want to understand that part as well. + +Artur Troian: Yes, so the easiest part from that is the least can be closed by multiple ways. So you either do deployment so from client perspective from Talent perspectively other than by deployment calls or is from provider side the provider discloses be and that's So as soon as provider issues transaction be close. The list will be closed. So yeah and that provider actually doesn't. + +Artur Troian: For let's say if the lease Not speeding up for whatever reason with image is wrong. Button doesn't exist. So what writer will do in five minutes if they lease is not healthy. It will actually close it by issues because + +Deval Patel: + +Deval Patel: Okay, another question. So when you say the least is not healthy right does it count as well that if the Manifest is not Properly deployed or it does not so let's say I want the leaves right? + +Artur Troian: you + +Deval Patel: But I do not send the Manifest or the Manifest has some problems like what happens at that point of time. + +Artur Troian: if the Manifest it has some problems that's the different issues. So by the time manifest is created. It's been validated that it's actually correct. So if manifest is incorrect, that means that the code base is wrong is having issues. yeah, but anyways to answer your question that counts as well. So let's say something wrong even the money fast. The provider will close the degrees by issues be closed. + +00:35:00 + +Deval Patel: Okay, okay, and we want to expose that using a transaction that will be initiated by provider through let's say command line or the UI from printer. + +Artur Troian: It is done automatically by the provider the issue is right now. They provider is the main user of the blockchain key and there's a thing called sequence number. So if you're gonna issues that command manually that will break sequence number and provider will click out. So there is a way but it's just not going to break things. So the beat close command must only come from the Provider Services in this stage. + +Deval Patel: Yeah, that's what I'm Okay providers service or… + +Artur Troian: but It's already implement. + +Deval Patel: okay, the very close command has to come from. + +Deval Patel: Okay. + +Artur Troian: Yeah, but that's already Implement. + +Artur Troian: I'm trying to understand what issues you're trying to solve here. + +Deval Patel: So we want to give the access to Providers where they will be able to close the lease if they find that lease is not appropriate for that. + +Artur Troian: I see. So the best way to do it right now is they have to stop providers Services first. Then they can be close. And then restart the Provider Services, that's unfortunately on the way to do that at this stage. Yes, we fully aware of this issues and we've been thinking require actually quite a while. On the ways to fix it. So this will be once we finish Provider Services split. And that's planned for some time next year. so right now the best way to do this is to stop the kill the lease by doing Because we start the Provider Services and then Provider Services will see that list has been closed. + +Artur Troian: And it will clean up the namespace for this particular deployment. So that's the way it has been done right now. + +Deval Patel: Okay, so that gives me clear idea what I need to do. And we really Implement that for now, right and you say we gonna change that in a cleaner way of doing things right at that point. We will make the new requests or make our modification as well right on the content conversation side. That's Okay with that. + +Deval Patel: Yeah, thank You are talking about the office hours. If I am done with all my questions and… + +Artur Troian: yeah, do you still want to we can do this kick on the Small version of office hours today and… + +Deval Patel: yeah. + +Artur Troian: show how to run the deployment how to debug things. + +Deval Patel: Yeah, but that sounds Really good. + +Artur Troian: Okay. + +Tyler Wright: as long as our arthritis + +Artur Troian: Yeah, so yeah. + +Artur Troian: just yeah. + +Artur Troian: it's actually probably. Let me just spare the screen. Is that on the second? + +Artur Troian: All right. let me know if you say my screen right now. Alright, so I'll just + +Artur Troian: so I'm gonna go to provider. + +Deval Patel: I'm not doing the commands with you because the recording will be available. So I'll be able to do that, on my own screen,… + +Artur Troian: Yeah, you don't need to do it. I'm gonna be showing it all… + +Deval Patel: right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. + +Artur Troian: how to do that and… + +Deval Patel: Thank you. + +Artur Troian: okay, so, Wonder + +Artur Troian: build the example is runcube let's open. we need pretty much free internal Windows, right the top one will be. So let me just make sure everything is clean. + +00:40:00 + +Artur Troian: Up Foster. the + +Artur Troian: my Joker is dark little second. Let me Learn all that. okay. I'd like to sit down the previous cluster Starting from completely clean stage. The first command to issue is made you poster setup and this command takes some time maybe five minutes actually, maybe less what it does is it deals all of the binaries and Docker images required the local testing so for other services it builds nodes + +Artur Troian: Then what it does is it sets up, generates certificate all the keys and blah blah blah pretty much to spin up local version of the blockchain this one radiator. in Paradise Genesis and then + +Artur Troian: Right now so yeah back up on that. So first of all it builds Akash binary over here compiling a car you can see it builds it from vocal sources. Then what it does is it generates Keys then it creates the validators that then it adds the Genesis what it is. The Genesis is alright. and after that at some tokens then generates the For provider and the clients I mean until as keys. Once the account that we're going to use to deploy. When there's Genesis one more time. Then it builds the provider. + +Artur Troian: And then after that it spins up actual kubernetes cluster. Right now, so it uses time to do that. It starts control deploys whatever needed for full development process embody diets that the required deployments like engine X and other things are up. + +Artur Troian: it spins up the persistent storage if you need that and yeah, this process the last step of making sure that the nginx controller is updating sometimes Minter tool. and + +Artur Troian: Yeah, let's say now we are done. so what it does now it Applause the are images that we just build to their kind cluster and the cluster is fully up. So next command you to start the blockchain mode. We do that by doing that make node run. And it starts making blocks. So the next step will be to create the provider. So you use for that obviously separate terminal window do create + +Artur Troian: second. Yeah, right. + +Artur Troian: And it just creates the provider. until the transaction is successful so we can do make I believe very provider you can see that we have provider on the blockchain now, can this actually starts Provider Services. It was the inventory and it actually ready to accept this. So what we do right now is my deployment rate So this command runs if we take a look here? there is I believe one second. Let me double check file which as the past I believe it's gonna use this That one is yellow. + +00:45:00 + +Artur Troian: This is the deployment that you'll use to create to test. So if you do make deployment create by default, the sequence is one. So the sequence can be set as the environment as a variable. So you do like that. So this is the default one always and if you create my multiple deployments you just set to three. Four and so on so forth. and if the sequence is other than the zero, you have to include that in please create and deployment goals. I will show it in a second. So you do makeup on and You see it deployed deployment yellow and the provider you can watch here that provider actually code that. Feel it was a ration and submitted beat. So if you do make + +Artur Troian: query did You can see the Obviously the resources offer this is the recent feature from minute 8 and we're ready to create list. So what we do is make these And Chris leaves and starts to the coil. so we can see that it received manifest. + +Artur Troian: the lease is up if you look sitcl + +Artur Troian: Get an ass. To be here and it's not why? yeah, I didn't lose that manifest. That's so we do mates and manifest. + +Artur Troian: It's almost pass and you can see there manifest received on the provider Windows names and completely deploy. So if you do you get them spaces use our lease. In space and you can do Cube Ctrl and that ointment. so it has two Services as you can see one nine new and one train web and you can stay ports and if you have and point there, you can do the proxy and access it with the browser or see URL to close deployments that we do is make the tournaments close and it will shut it down. + +Artur Troian: Sort of completely closely, then you can see the provider actually immediately reacted there on that. So it unreservation and completed turn it down. You can check the spaces. Once again, you can see the reasoning space is gone. So let's say you want to create new deployment this because the sequence one already been used by this key. We need to specify different one. So it doesn't have to be consecutive. It has to be unique just all the time. For this sake of example, we're gonna use the sequence number two. Let's say the sequence to my deployment. Okay, I'm gonna use the same. manifest for that so the sequence tool it created deployment you can see for provider immediately reacted and submitted for humans and submitted bid as soon as we have beat do. + +Artur Troian: sequence to make a list rate that has been done provided is happy with that. And now we do once again the sequence to make money requests and manifest is done. And as you can see the provider completely deployed it and just double checking out. you see how business spaces using your namespace and you can + +Artur Troian: get services Yep, everything is hungry. And once again to pause it the sequence might want to close. + +Artur Troian: That's pretty much it. And to stop the provider into this Ctrl C that control see that and everything is stopped. Yes can go ahead. + +Scott Carruthers: Yeah, I just want to reiterate what you mentioned earlier Archer. So the link that I shared. In the chapter this meeting are detailed notes for this exact process. This is a + +00:50:00 + +Scott Carruthers: Documentation that I link to is currently I'm linking to my own GitHub repository. eventually I'll live on the cost documentation site, but we're awaiting they migration to docs 2.0 what did make sense to go through starting to bring this live on the current platform months or way until it's migrated to Not only this but all the developer documentation that created at the beginning of the year will be there. So Deval or anyone else is you're going through that documentation if you have any suggestions, it's definitely documentation that isn't vetted I think it's very clean and very thorough it just has by many people so clarific Answer additions that we can make please. Let me know. everything that Archer just went through from the creation of the local blockchain to spending up a local validator to creating the + +Scott Carruthers: provider and then also the steps make amends to create the deployment and send the Manifest and all that is detailed in that documentation. yeah. I mean as I let me know if you recommendations on where there could be improvements but should be pretty straightforward to use. + +Deval Patel: Yeah. Thank you Scott. And thank you Arthur for the demo. Thank you very much. + +Tyler Wright: Deval I'm sure you. + +Artur Troian: No problem. Yeah, all right. yeah. Thanks. + +Tyler Wright: Yeah, I was just gonna ask the ball. I know that you may have other questions. I really appreciate that demo and I'm sure we'll do more of those over time if anybody here has any specific topics that they want. Archer Scott Andre or others to do more of a deep dive in and pertains to either the code base or intricacies of using the class Network. Please feel free to message me or throw something in six support so we can add those as potential agenda items. Otherwise again, we do want to leave some time for folks to ask specific questions that are more Technical and give people the opportunity to do that with regularity. developers any other questions that you may have at this point. I know we only have five minutes left before some of us have to run over to Sig providers. + +Deval Patel: No, I'm good. Thank you. + +Tyler Wright: awesome again Archer much appreciate walking through the support repo and any issues that needed triashing. Thank you again to all the Insiders that give support around the clock to new and existing users that are interacting with the cash. I know it improves The Experience so much appreciate All again. Sig providers is coming up in about four minutes where we'll get an update on all the work to pray to our team has done this year. + +Tyler Wright: The kind of a look ahead on some of the things that they're thinking about for 2024 as well as I know that Benjamin is going to be talking more about his pre-draft discussion around an auditor. looking forward to those discussions in Sig providers. But again, thank you very much for joining. We'll meet up again in two weeks. I think after that we might take a couple of weeks off for the holiday. So if anybody has any specific things that need covering let's look to cover those in two weeks, but again much appreciate everyone's time today, and hope everyone has a great rest of the day. We'll talk soon. + +Scott Carruthers: Thanks, everyone. + +Tyler Wright: Thank you. + +Deval Patel: Thank you. + +Meeting ended after 00:53:48 👋 + diff --git a/wg-akash-website/README.md b/wg-akash-website/README.md index f6cf50a8..61e5941e 100644 --- a/wg-akash-website/README.md +++ b/wg-akash-website/README.md @@ -20,19 +20,17 @@ This working group is responsible for managing and improving the Akash Network W | #8 | Thursday, August 10, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/wg-akash-website/meetings/008-2023-08-10.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/wg-akash-website/meetings/008-2023-08-10.md#Transcript) | [Link](https://s4xeygkmhljsn4hntjfy3iwouyso2x5doxxvvlhvyjfraudrv4aa.arweave.net/ly5MGUw60ybw7ZpLjaLOpiTtX6N171qs9cJLEFBxrwA) | #9 | Thursday, August 17, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)|[Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/wg-akash-website/meetings/009-2023-08-17.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/wg-akash-website/meetings/009-2023-08-17.md#Transcript) | [Link](https://uqbnueeye424hiv7umqeebeow3umxvbi2beve2moiuelabowtcqq.arweave.net/pALaEJgnNcOiv6MgQgSOtujL1CjQSVJpjkUIsAXWmKE) | #10 | Thursday, August 24, 2023 07:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/wg-akash-website/meetings/010-2023-08-24.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/wg-akash-website/meetings/010-2023-08-24.md#Transcript) |[Link](https://fn5tkawv3bu7oostaqau53jaz55vpz54mm3r7auowlxtxxfmlwga.arweave.net/K3s1AtXYafc6UwQBTu0gz3tX57xjNx-CjrLvO9ysXYw) -| #11 | Thursday, August 31, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| || -| #12 | Thursday, September 07, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| || -| #13 | Thursday, September 14, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| || -| #14 | Thursday, September 21, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| || -| #15 | Thursday, September 28, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| || -| #16 | Thursday, October 05, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| || -| #17 | Thursday, October 12, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| || -| #18 | Thursday, October 19, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| || -| #19 | Thursday, October 26, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| || -| #20 | Thursday, November 02, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| || - - - +| #11 | Thursday, September 14, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/wg-akash-website/meetings/011-2023-09-14.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/wg-akash-website/meetings/011-2023-09-14.md#Transcript) |[Link](https://s7n2e2tfghnhjtwc3wse3vnami7vmza7npbr65i4orqb3mfmrpba.arweave.net/l9uiamUx2nTOwt2kTdWgYj9WZB9rwx91HHRgHbCsi8I) +| #12 | Thursday, October 12, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| Coming Soon|Coming Soon| Coming Soon +| #13 | Thursday, October 19, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/wg-akash-website/meetings/013-2023-10-19.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/wg-akash-website/meetings/013-2023-10-19.md#Transcript) |[Link](https://s7n2e2tfghnhjtwc3wse3vnami7vmza7npbr65i4orqb3mfmrpba.arweave.net/l9uiamUx2nTOwt2kTdWgYj9WZB9rwx91HHRgHbCsi8I) +| #14 | Thursday, October 26, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/wg-akash-website/meetings/014-2023-10-26.md) | [Link](https://github.com/akash-network/community/blob/main/wg-akash-website/meetings/014-2023-10-26.md#Transcript) |[Link](https://z5ffy5w2liqufhaktycxtjmyyfbrpe5ewae72o7kviwi4eigwrna.arweave.net/z0pcdtpaIUKcCp4FeaWYwUMXk6SwCf076qosjhEGtFo) +| #15 | Thursday, November 02, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| Coming soon | Coming soon| Coming Soon +| #16 | Thursday, November 09, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| Coming soon | Coming soon| Coming Soon +| #17 | Thursday, November 16, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| Coming soon | Coming soon| Coming Soon +| #18 | Thursday, November 23, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| Coming soon | Coming soon| Coming Soon +| #19 | Thursday, November 30, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| Coming soon | Coming soon| Coming Soon +| #20 | Thursday, December 07, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| Coming soon | Coming soon| Coming Soon +| #21 | Thursday, December 14, 2023 06:30 AM PT (Pacific Time)| Coming soon | Coming soon| Coming Soon ## Leads @@ -41,6 +39,7 @@ This working group is responsible for managing and improving the Akash Network W - Tyler Wright - Zach Horn + ## Contacts - [Discord](https://discord.com/channels/747885925232672829/1111762354242338876/1144276254699298826)