carbon footprint display #11943
Replies: 12 comments 24 replies
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There would need to be a setting for your engine's CO2 emissions in the vehicle settings but I think this is a cool idea |
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When predicting energy-use (fuel consumed, waste released, etc.), then that might do. However, the actual result will depend heavily on how the vehicle is driven along the actual route. Plus, other factors, like vehicle maintenance. So, it would have to be with the caveat that it's an approximate estimate, at best. Analysis of efficiency might be useful to inform the fuel-saving router mode. |
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Do you have a page explaining the process of new features acceptation ? Is it a vote or someone will eventually decide ? |
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@spacekookie maybe you know ? Thanks |
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It's essentially down to the developers. Currently they're busy working on OpenGL rendering. They're receptive to contributions via pull requests, though. |
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What additional information could such a function give, what gas station receipts or odometers couldn't already tell? |
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Most effective means to incorporate functions is probably by so called "Pull request". It works like this: the person who wished a feature to become part of the program, clones the repo, then writes the code for that feature, and then, by "Pull request", signals to the repository owner that this fork contains changes or additions he might want to look at and possibly incorporate into a branch of his own repo. |
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I don't like the requested feature but ... maybe other idea |
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There's also the aspect of somehow fitting new functions into user interface. Many users complain already that the menu system is inconsistent and overly loaded - throwing in new functions isn't likely to improve the situation. But there's a simple method to determine CO2 footprint without having to navigate through OsmAnd menus or clutter display. For this example, I use a car with 120000 km on its odo, and an average fuel consumption of 6,5 l/100 km. Sorry if you're used to mpg - means to convert between those do exist, produced mass of carbon dioxide (in kilograms): 120000 * 2.4 * 6.5 / 100 -> close to 19 tons. The result take only consumed/burned fuel into account. No additional impact from fuel production, engine oil, brakes, tires etc, or transport of any of those, is considered here. |
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No, you don't. But campaigning for it is still possible. This resembles a bit campaigning for adding a feature to a program. |
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Because there are other factors involved. Applying a uni-variant analysis, where a multi-variant analysis is a more representative (of reality) model, leads nowhere productive. Even with a rigorous analysis, that doesn't change fundamentals (at least not anytime soon).
Other, broader factors are pertinent:
People are already incentivised to use no more than they need; price & micro-economics. I'd argue that OsmAnd (& related) helps by informing users of optimal routes. However, everything involved to yield that, uses plenty of energy and material resources.
Hmm. The word propaganda comes to mind. The goal of OsmAnd is to help users make their journeys, not to preach at them. Imposing unrequested things upon users goes against so many principles of ethics related to user-respecting software. That's what developers of proprietary software do. OSM becoming more like Google? No thanks. I could also comment plenty on the problems of trying to inject politics into software & tech. Libre software is, by nature, anti-authoritarian. So, I don't see how a pseudo-feature which runs counter to the goals of OsmAnd, fits with OsmAnd, and ultimately serves users. Like has been established; for those who really care about the actual numbers, they can calculate them easily. There are apps for measuring accurate values of fuel-efficiency. Putting my regular-user hat (with the benefit of UX knowledge & experience) on, for a moment;
Ultimately, people are already pretty aware; difficult to not be, these days.
it's not that simple. Sometimes the fuel-efficient route, and the shortest route, will match. Not always. Distance is but one factor.
Many users would strongly disagree, and some would have other ideas on how display area could / should be-used. Keep in mind that an app which is primarily about displaying a map, can't cover the map with many widgets (and everyone has their favourites, which they think should take priority). Displaying the map is of prime importance. |
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Ownership isn't a requirement. Apply similar tactics;
Though, even if price weren't a factor (because £1.50.per litre), establishments selling fuel (or any other commodity) have (surprise) an interest in selling more of it. So, something which discourages sales (to the point of lowest need) isn't something that I imagine they'll be keen on. |
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The chosen method of incorporating that feature by means of a plugin allows users to enable it, if they wish, or keep it disabled. They are therefore in control of that feature showing. This isn't exactly "imposing", but more like "offering a choice", which is good, IMHO. |
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Indeed. As a (default disabled) plugin, would be far less objectionable. I don't presume to forbid it for those who do want it (which is no better). My objection is to such things being foisted upon all, regardless of their wishes / choices / preferences / ability to do anything with the info. Ultimately, combustion emissions are a social problem, best solved by addressing that nature of it. Trying to solve a social problem, with technology, is liable to fail (and be wasted effort & resources). By all means, inform and educate the receptive, who are positioned & motivated to make whatever changes are necessary. That's not everyone, though. |
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@EugeneZmeuk @Chumva @alexey-pelykh @sonora @vshcherb |
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I would be interested to have integrated as a plugin, so once it's done we could help to wrap it up as a plugin, so it could be used. |
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@sonora My idea is not to provide the comparison between vehicles. The users will choose their vehicle type and the app will provide an approximation for this type. It should not take battery and CPU, there is just a multiplication. @vshcherb shipping it as a plugin will not help my goal since only people who know it exists and install it will benefit from it, right ? |
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@pierreloicq |
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Is it possible to make it as plugin that is installed by default ? |
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Tell that to Canadians & Scandinavians, especially in winter. |
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Work is progressing. I have the CO2 display in the menu as I showed above. I can now start working on the menu asking for type of fuel and consumption. I plan to put it in : do prepare a route/settings/navigation settings/vehicle parameters. I think the best would be to propose some simple options by default (gazoline/diesel/electric/LPG) with averaged values and also propose a bigger choice based on the car brand and model, if I find an external service with API. |
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Part of the appeal of OsmAnd is offline use. A variety of reasons, for that. |
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I am almost done :-)
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And push #12859 !
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Personally, I'd like to appeal to not add element to a already distracting screen (from it's goal which should be navigation). If someone wants to have CO2 information it would be best to have it as a plugin.. (IMHO). Preferably together with all important data as break pad and rotors wear emissions, tires emisions, emissions of vehicle construction, for EV also battery wear -> recycling impact calculations etc. |
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This might actually be an interesting basis for a routing algorithm (beyond just OsmAnd); metrics (beside distance & time) of the selected route. However, what would be useful is to compare different modes of transport for reaching the destination. That's likely to have the largest effect on the resultant net energy-use. |
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It would be useful to be able to enter and save the average fuel consumption/energy consumption of a vehicle plus the approximate current fuel costs/energy costs in the navigation planning (settings). The goal would be an output of fuel costs at the planned route. Would this be feasible in the short term? |
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Such a mode may even be consistent with the initial goal of the plugin, as many people seem to be more cost driven than environmental-impact driven. |
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I would be personally very interested for this feature. Due to occasional carpooling, it would be nice, if the prices could be downloaded from the internet on daily basis according to nav area. So you can easily just say, how much the trip would cost. EDIT: for the feature thou it would make sense make custom issue. |
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this feature is already available on viamichelin.com |
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So how would one lift it out of viamichelin.com and use it with/incorporate it into OsmAnd (assuming it's GPL'ed or equivalent, or course)? |
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The French government has asked/demanded that Waze and Google Maps display the carbon footprint of the routes, among other things: Not a word about non-commercial, open-source apps (to which the government seems oblivious), but I agree that it’s a nudge in the right direction. :) |
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Hello,
I think it would be useful for planet earth to display an approximated carbon footprint when we generate a route in the car mode.
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