Show possible pp on a choked play

[Zockerboi]

So, if you for example miss on a map, instead showing only what an SS would be worth in the result screen, it should also show a "if not choked" pp score. See on the screenshot how i was thinking it:

[vatei]

Would be super nice, I hope it fits into the result screen redesign though

[Tenexxt]

I like the idea, but i have questions to this:

• How would slider end misses work? Would the FC pp count display a True FC pp value, or a 'Regular' FC pp value? True FC is basically what i call a score with all spiner bonus points, slider ends, slider ticks and no misses - or basically a SS/True SS choke. In the score shown in the picture, there are 3 missing slider ends and 7 missed slider bonus points, would this values stay the same and only the miss would be uncounted, or would these values be changed to 100% possible value?
• What would misses turn into? Would they be counted as Greats, or as an other score value? It would make most sense for it to be perfecr but if the note was missed, it was missed for a reason so IMO it shoudn't be counted as a great, but thats just my personal opinion + The overall calculation is theoretical anyway. Just felt like asking this

Overall, i like the idea a lot, id like to see this in-game

[Joehuu]

Has been attempted in #25624 but is stuck on some mania edge case.

[DanielPower]

It doesn't really seem like it's stuck on a mania edge case - the feature just doesn't make sense for mania's scoring system and wouldn't be shown in mania. It seems like it's moreso stuck on a maintainer being opposed to the idea of including the feature.

I'd really love to see this feature implemented. I find myself frequently alt-tabbing after a play to get this stat from a Discord bot. Wouldn't need to if it was just shown in the results screen.

Edit: Although if combo scaling removal goes through, maybe this feature won't be needed for std in the future either.

[gowon11]

To be honest it just seems like the person evaluating it was just super biased against it. Not following through because it would exclude mania, a gamemode where this feature doesn't have a reason to exist, is just super weird.

[bdach]

I still don't want this in the game fwiw. I know that people want this but I dunno. This gives me the same air of "what if though" as people who seriously propose deleting NF score penalty. If you want to find out how much pp you could get if you FC or something then I say you should go use a discord bot as people do right now. Or actually hit the play.

[Zockerboi]

In my opinion it should be in the game for three points:

• The performance breakdown menu in my opinion has no effective use case, only if you grind for SSes.

• The action for that should be easier to use, as players who focus on PP need to use the discord bot. An "if FC" line in that menu wouldn't really mess with the ui too since it's only one single line.

• As mentioned, something like this would be not noticable due to the size by casual players, but for those who wants it it's a great implementation.

[bdach]

The performance breakdown menu in my opinion has no effective use case, only if you grind for SSes.

If that is the case then you might as well argue for removing it entirely rather than putting more info there.

The action for that should be easier to use, as players who focus on PP need to use the discord bot. An "if FC" line in that menu wouldn't really mess with the ui too since it's only one single line.

I don't want to "focus on PP" or encourage pp farming any more than it already is.

[Tenexxt]

Understandable that you don't want to encourage pp farming, but to be fair people who are farming won't stop just because of this being added, and afaik most farmers are on stable
I you want to focus on making the pp farming community smaller, or just not adding much stuff to it, then there are many other things that could help, like not allowing songs that already have 10 ranked sets have 10 qualified ones, which 8 of the qualified 10 is nominated by the same BN :) Basically, by improving the ranked system you will also get somewhat rid of pp farming, because by fixing this issue people can't just nominate farm and also players won't have their top leaderboard filled with one song, and still getting bonus pp for it

A counter for a FC PP isn't a problem, since there already is a counter for an SS, so adding this is just a QoL change that would help a big group of people, rather than only pp farmers. Also it not being compatible with mania shouldn't be a reason to not do this because every mode has a different scoring system, and it's no one's fault that the system works the way it does for a certain mode.

[gowon11]

Also would like to add that this feature seems to contribute to the path that lazer seems to be taking, which is removing the necessity of leaving the game to access things that aren't just playing the game like accessing player profiles, using the beatmap listing like it's on the website, downloading tools to analyzing replays, etc. Adding this would remove the necessity of third party apps to see what could have been achieved on said score if you just grinded a bit more for an FC. I don't really see why this shouldn't be in the game since it's just one aditional line in the performance breakdown.

[bdach]

It's as simple as: I resent the idea of the game becoming a "pp farming simulator" and do not want to lean into the demands of that crowd too hard. This proposal feels like too hard.

[cl8n]

I think this performance breakdown area should focus on giving you detailed stats about the play that happened, not "what if" scenarios. I'm not completely against having some way to simulate scores in-game -- just by general principle that creating conveniences for popular use-cases is good -- but presenting it here definitely gives me "pp farming simulator" vibe with the same worries bdach mentioned

[sinc0s]

I'm going to stray away from the concept of the "pp farming simulator", and also the simple reason that it is convenient (although I still believe this is a good enough argument alone) to propose a different reason why I believe this should be added. This is likely very similar to minisbett's comment: #25624 (comment)

This addition would be a massive motivator for many players. The maximum does not serve well enough in this purpose because the majority of players cannot/will not be striving to SS the map they are playing. This metric is a far better identifier for the player of what they could possibly achieve if they kept trying to improve on the map. Similar to medals, this becomes something which is a strong motivator for the player to keep going, but is far more likely to actually be achievable for them. As much as it is sometimes undesirable, getting PP is the main source of enjoyment for a lot of players, and this would only help.

I also think that the argument for opposing this due to not being in the osu!mania ruleset is strange. It makes perfect sense for this to not exist in osu!mania, consider the fact that the ruleset relies purely on accuracy in performance calculation (to my knowledge). To have this apply to only rulesets that account for misses in calculation seems completely fine.

[bdach]

I have an inverse feeling. I could just as well argue that showing this number feels like rewarding the player with seeing a number they didn't actually earn, i.e. demotivating. As in, think "I could hit this much pp if I hadn't choked so I'm not gonna try anymore", i.e. what the kids call "cope" these days.

Sorry but I can't be moved on this I think. I fell a bit into the farming hole for a bit in 2019 and what it did is it ruined my enjoyment of the game for a bit. Only when I caught myself and realised what was happening and stopped the pp chase I got it back. You'll have to find other people to approve and merge this sort of change. I speak only for myself in this matter, but I will continue to not be actively interested in merging this feature.

It makes perfect sense for this to not exist in osu!mania, consider the fact that the ruleset relies purely on accuracy in performance calculation (to my knowledge).

If you know all these details it may "make perfect sense". It won't make perfect sense to someone who's opened the game for the first time in their life.